How to bring the wonder woman myth down to earth...

[gary23]

start with the greek gods. after having read issues 1 - 10 of the new azzarello and chiang i have concluded something. essentially, what they are doing is no different than what perez did or anybody else who tried to tackle the daunting task of creating a wonder woman that is engaging and believable. until somebody comes up with a way to bring the gods down to our level, wonder woman will always feel campy, like a cross between the old 70's tv series, and the marvel movies of today, filled with magic and aliens on gold mechanized sleds and purple bad guys on blue comets. it is my contention that when it comes to style, marvel movies should exploit magic and fantasy while dc should focus more on keeping things gritty and real, like the nolan series. based on what i have read and heard and seen, that is what z snyder has attempted to do with the man of steel. so the question i pose to all of you is, how to bring the greek gods of wonder woman mythology down to earth in a cool, meaningful way that stays true to her origins but doesn't feel forced or fantastical. one of the things i have suggested in conversations with friends is that the gods in human form are essentially human, they have strength and speed and intelligence, but if shot they still bleed, etc.. but in what way should that play out in an origins story for wonder woman to benefit the story? maybe they shouldn't be gods at all, maybe they are alchemists, or scientists and wonder woman is a product of that science. lets face it, does anybody buy that the amazons have lived for thousands of years, and that diana was born from clay? maybe she's a a.i. or something closer to the major in ghost in the shell. i want to start a debate, i want to discuss new ways to bring the story to bare in a gritty and down to earth way. any takers?

[coveredinbees]

Don't bring her down to Earth. It's fiction.

[Lotech]

Let Wonder Woman be Wonder Woman.

[garion]

well, one way that has been done before is saying that the Gods powers/existence is based upon number of people who believe in them and/or the amount of belief in them. Thus, in this modern world of many religions... their powers are at low levels because nobody really believes in them.

[americanwonder]

Hi Gary - nice to see a new face (even though I can't see your face).

Don't bring her down to Earth. It's fiction.

I'm with coveredinbees on this. I don't think "dark" and "grounded" works well for all characters, and WW is one of those characters where I don't think it's the best fit. It's almost like wanting to make an "edgy" My Little Pony. So, I tend to think the Marvel movies (ala Thor) are a better tone for a WW movie. And no thanks on the a.i. WW - yes, I buy it that the Amazons could be immortal and Diana could be born from clay. It's fiction. A story.

Still, to play along, I'd go with Clash of the Titans meets Grimm. I wouldn't actually show the gods themselves much at all. Just show their influence, fight various minions of sorts, etc. I liked how Ares use to talk to Cassie through reflections in Teen Titans. Or did you ever see "Fallen" with Denzel Washington? The evil spirit would inhabit different bodies. Something along those lines.

[apexspark]

You're right that is what Snyder looks like he's doing to Superman, and it looked like a frigging Grounded adaptation. And Making Wonder Woman a Homunculus, or a robot? Really? How is that any less fantastical, or less silly? Though, the idea of the Amazons being scientist and alchemists and making Diana out of ancient sciences from studying the human made from clay myth from a world they retreated from, Paradise Island a home of advanced biochemist is a more original origin re visioning that what we have now, I'll give you that.

[Bluewing_A23]

By bring her fans down to earth. :D

[Outside_85]

WHy the devil would you want to drag Wonder Woman down to Batman's level? Because Thor is already in the niche she would end up in?

[gary23]

wow, how fun. lots of dedicated ww fans i see. so let me begin by saying, yeah, making her a machine is dumb, just throwing it out there to get some responses. that said, grounded stories just work better in my opinion. that doesn't mean she won't have powers, or function on a higher level than the average human. in my imagination i see her growing and learning to be every bit as powerful as superman. outside_85 said, " why bring her down to batman's level". i don't mean her as a hero, but the story and outside85 also mentions thor. am i the only one who found that first movie silly? take iron man, a playboy billionaire genius who feels guilty for contributing to war, creates a machine to save a world. i'm no billionaire, and i'm certainly no genius, but i can relate to his feelings on a human level. but work that in with thor's mythology and aliens on sleds etc.. and to me (though i found the avengers enjoyable) it doesn't match with the grounded mythology of iron man at all. i get that it's fiction, sci-fi, but gee whiz. as apposed to batman, who i can relate to. not the billionaire status, but his motivation, his journey of revenge and the damage it does to the soul are all things i can sort of relate too. the best fiction, in my mind, is something i can relate to, i hate to keep saying that, but it's true. take superman, he's an alien, i bite, because i can see the stars, the possibility of life on other planets is real, though it may or may not be true, the fact that it is possible, make sm's mythology seem plausible.. save with GL at least sort of.. but greek gods, what are they really, keepers of the universe? keepers of earth? who created them?

[Rob_Olivera]

Hi Gary - nice to see a new face (even though I can't see your face).



I'm with coveredinbees on this. I don't think "dark" and "grounded" works well for all characters, and WW is one of those characters where I don't think it's the best fit. It's almost like wanting to make an "edgy" My Little Pony. So, I tend to think the Marvel movies (ala Thor) are a better tone for a WW movie. And no thanks on the a.i. WW - yes, I buy it that the Amazons could be immortal and Diana could be born from clay. It's fiction. A story.

Still, to play along, I'd go with Clash of the Titans meets Grimm. I wouldn't actually show the gods themselves much at all. Just show their influence, fight various minions of sorts, etc. I liked how Ares use to talk to Cassie through reflections in Teen Titans. Or did you ever see "Fallen" with Denzel Washington? The evil spirit would inhabit different bodies. Something along those lines.

That's exactly why I have kind of an issue with showing the gods almost as supervillains. Not that Azzarello is the first one to do this by any means, also Rucka.

If anyone comes asking I'll point them to your post. You said it like I would've said it.

[Outside_85]

outside_85 said, " why bring her down to batman's level". i don't mean her as a hero but the story

Well dragging her up to Batman's level would be more appropriate if it had been what I meant with that. What I meant was that Batman is naturally grounded because he is just a man in a suit yet still manages to survive and overcome the hellhole his city is. Diana on the other hand is not natural to limit her to fight mob bosses and gangsters when you could have her fight all sorts of far more interesting things, like Hydras, Gods, Minotauers and so on.

and outside85 also mentions thor. am i the only one who found that first movie silly? take iron man, a playboy billionaire genius who feels guilty for contributing to war, creates a machine to save a world. i'm no billionaire, and i'm certainly no genius, but i can relate to his feelings on a human level. but work that in with thor's mythology and aliens on sleds etc.. and to me (though i found the avengers enjoyable) it doesn't match with the grounded mythology of iron man at all.

Well Thor is a mythological being from another plane of existence, he is not supposed to be any way like Tony Stark, you dont want him to be ground in our reality because he simply doesn't belong there. Also he is a Kirby character so taking away the weirdness will be loosing the connection to the comics, which is what Marvel is doing with their movies, while Nolan has done a lot to detach his Batman from the books.

.. but greek gods, what are they really, keepers of the universe? keepers of earth? who created them?

That's really not a question you need to ask, you just have to accept that it happened in a world where gods and monsters exist, sometimes they are allies, sometimes they are not. You could also just say they are superior beings that consider the Earth their personal sandbox. For the Olympians specifically, well look up Wikipedia for the back story.

[Fate's Faith]

Well, if you think the gods keep from making her grounded, they could have treated them like the Greek gods really are today. Not forgotten but not physical in our world. Then she's just a woman worshipping beings that may or may not exist.

[JimRaynor55]

Don't bring her down to Earth. It's fiction.

Let's talk about how to bring Green Lantern down to Earth.

[gary23]

Let's talk about how to bring Green Lantern down to Earth.

good luck with that...

[gary23]

Well, if you think the gods keep from making her grounded, they could have treated them like the Greek gods really are today. Not forgotten but not physical in our world. Then she's just a woman worshipping beings that may or may not exist.

yeah, someone mentioned the denzel washington movie "fallen" as a way of accepting they exist without really seeing them, and a part of me thinks there is merit to that argument. there are plenty of good baddies in the wonder woman world, maxwel lord, genocide, giganta, deathstroke (one of my favorites) or dr. pshyco who can all work as grounded villians.. that said, and here is where i'm going to piss people off, as much as i am having trouble with the greek gods, if one were writing a story about wonder woman and introducing her to the public for the first time, i feel like the greek gods as villians, or one greek god as the villian, ares, is the best way to establish her origins and set up the mythology. there, i said it.. ares, the god of war, seriously, what better way to introduce the whole thing to the unknowing public.. so if that's the case, then what? as you can probably tell by now, i'm not a big fan of magic or lightning bolts shooting out of eyes, so lets go back to something i mentioned earlier, which is, lets say the gods are entities our little human minds are unable to comprehend, something beyond elemental, something created by the universe, for the universe and the only reason they have names and designations (Zeus - father, Hera -mother) is so that humans can understand who and what they are. in my own mythology, what are they, protectors of the universe, universal sentinels? to do what? -- okay, then, what if they can't control people and the planet as gods in any real way, like blowing up a planet, or whatever, rather, they must come down to our level, they must have a body, like possession, with a nervous system, cardiovascular system, etc.. in order to exist, which means they can bleed and be destroyed. that gives them vulnerability, that means their actions have consequences, then what? like in the 2009 WW animated movie, Ares is pissed at humans, they're arrogant etc.. and he comes down here to kick ass.. is that enough, does that make enough sense to drive the story forward.. lets say hippolyta and the amazons subdue him somehow and zeus approves, he essentially banishes ares on earth.. then following the logic, 2000 years later, when Ares is able to free himself, wouldn't it be more interesting, instead of having him try to destroy the world, he is interested in revenge and he uses diana to do it? i.e. get zeus down to earth, then ares will try to destroy him for banishing him on earth. yes, he's a god, and yes 2000 years may be a drop in the hat to a god, but remember, he's not a god, not down here, he's human, immortal yes, but human, imagine what that does to a dude... thoughts?