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Thread: The Spider #3

  1. #1
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    Default The Spider #3

    I'm really loving The Spider, even more so than The Shadow and I would agree that it's one of DE's best published works to date. Issue #3 was a fun read, they did a great job at hooking me in for issue #4 (as if I wasn't going to buy it anyway) and everything flowed nicely, but man.....the art is what is really setting this book apart from the other pulp stuff coming out from Dynamite. It's just so damn good and the design of The Spider is just amazing, Colton really needs full-time work with DE should he ever leave this book because he's just such an asset for the company and really hits the nail right on the head.

    Good stuff as always!

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    Senior Member gwydion's Avatar
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    I agree that The Spider is great, though my personal preference if for The Shadow. But Dynamite's pulp heroes are a welcome return to what made this genre great, and are executed almost to perfection so far. My biggest problem with The Spider so far is the viability of someone that so many people suspect is The Spider. I mean in a way it's refreshing after watching people struggle with the fact that Clark Kent is in fact that guy Superman, (like the old Lois and Clark take where the guy from the future can't believe how stupid everyone on Earth is to not notice that). But it leads to future practical difficulties.
    Last edited by gwydion; 07-19-2012 at 06:50 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwydion View Post
    I agree that The Spider is great, though my personal preference if for The Shadow. But Dynamite's pulp heroes are a welcome return to what made this genre great, and are executed almost to perfection so far. My biggest problem with The Spider so far is the viability of someone that so many people suspect is The Spider. I mean in a way it's refreshing after watching people struggle with the fact that Clark Kent is in fact that guy Superman, (like the old Lois and Clark take where the guy from the future can't believe how stupid everyone on Earth is to not notice that). But it leads to future practical difficulties.
    That's about the only thing in the comic that does come from the pulps. Both crooks and cops suspected Wentworth of being the Spider. The difference being that Kirkpatrick is a good cop and thus sought conclusive evidence whereas the crooks were free to act on their suspicions. Of course the pulps glossed over just how easy it would be to prove Wentworth as the Spider (from tracking his automobile purchases and repairs alone). And given today's technological advances in crime labs, it really stretches the credibility that Kirkpatrick or the FBI could not get a court order to get the evidence needed.

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    Hmmmm.

    Am not too keen on them adding in Wentworth's father in the latest issue. This adds a dynamic that didn't exist in the pulp.

    We know nothing about Wentworth's family. They are never mentioned. This is pretty much the norm. We know a little about Doc Savage's father, and Operator #5's dad is a retired spy, but that's it. Parents are largely absent from the hero pulps.

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    Enjoyed it. It departs a bit from the pulp stories, but I think it needs to if the title is to distinguish itself from the Shadow book (as there has to be something more than "he's more violent than the Shadow").

    Overall I'm enjoying it. It's definitely moody.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emb021 View Post
    Hmmmm.

    Am not too keen on them adding in Wentworth's father in the latest issue. This adds a dynamic that didn't exist in the pulp.

    We know nothing about Wentworth's family. They are never mentioned. This is pretty much the norm. We know a little about Doc Savage's father, and Operator #5's dad is a retired spy, but that's it. Parents are largely absent from the hero pulps.
    Apparently, at least in one novel there is a reference to his father. In the foreword by Will Murray of the "last" Spider novel SLAUGHTER, INC., he quotes from an an un-named Spider novel that gives some motivation to Wentworth's war on crime: "Oh, there had been peprsonal reasons behind his initial foray beyond the law - a dear friend was being framed out of life and honor and home. And there had been the example of his father who had died when Wentworth was scarcely in his teens, a great lawyer murdered by criminals because he had dared defy them to save an innocent man they had made their scape-goat."

    I wish Murray had said from what novel that came as that's the only reference I've seen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jsf View Post
    Enjoyed it. It departs a bit from the pulp stories, but I think it needs to if the title is to distinguish itself from the Shadow book (as there has to be something more than "he's more violent than the Shadow").

    Overall I'm enjoying it. It's definitely moody.
    Well, there are other differences. He's more passionate about what he does, the relationships he has. The Shadow is far more stoic and distances himself from the people around him, even from his friends he tends to keep a mask of deception up so you never know if you're dealing with the real him. Wentworth is more empathic, his relationships and friendships are held dear. They are both great detectives with keen and clever minds and able to act coolly and capably under fire, but it's when they aren't fighting for their lives that they show themselves to be different.

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    Well the comic shouldn't mimic the pulp 100%, this is a modern age. The spider has done great so far and is a fun book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Love View Post
    Apparently, at least in one novel there is a reference to his father. In the foreword by Will Murray of the "last" Spider novel SLAUGHTER, INC., he quotes from an an un-named Spider novel that gives some motivation to Wentworth's war on crime: "Oh, there had been peprsonal reasons behind his initial foray beyond the law - a dear friend was being framed out of life and honor and home. And there had been the example of his father who had died when Wentworth was scarcely in his teens, a great lawyer murdered by criminals because he had dared defy them to save an innocent man they had made their scape-goat."

    I wish Murray had said from what novel that came as that's the only reference I've seen.
    I wasn't aware that "Slaughter, Inc." was out. I'd like to get it. Have the "Blue Steel" paperback that it was turned into.

    I haven't read as many Spiders as I'd like, but I've read Robert Sampson work on the character, and don't recall any mention of Wentworth's father.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Love View Post
    Well, there are other differences. He's more passionate about what he does, the relationships he has. The Shadow is far more stoic and distances himself from the people around him, even from his friends he tends to keep a mask of deception up so you never know if you're dealing with the real him. Wentworth is more empathic, his relationships and friendships are held dear. They are both great detectives with keen and clever minds and able to act coolly and capably under fire, but it's when they aren't fighting for their lives that they show themselves to be different.
    I'd at to it: The Shadow is more of a spymaster. He often works from the background. His agents are people that work FOR him, by and large, who are given orders and who carry them out. Sometimes they get killed (like one of his early information agents), and often times he has to step in and save them. He always seems in control of the situation and himself.

    Wentworth, as noted, is more emotional. And that's also part of the world he is in. The Shadow's world seems similar to ours, but with the Spider you have everything turned up to 11. The foes are SUPER violent and terrifying to a degree you do NOT see in The Shadow. And because of this, the Spider must be as violent and terrifying. This is probably why is main image is more scary then heroic, with the fright mask, fake fangs and all.

    And Wentworth doesn't have agents, he has compatriots in fighting crime, who he fights with shoulder to shoulder.

    I think people see a very superficial similarity and don't look further: yes, both wear a slouch hat & cloak, laugh and use .45 and aren't afraid to kill. But they are much different.

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by HasbroSlayer84 View Post
    Well the comic shouldn't mimic the pulp 100%, this is a modern age. The spider has done great so far and is a fun book.
    The sad thing is that it differs from the pulps in so many different ways. None of the characters or their relationships to each other are left unchanged.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Love View Post
    The sad thing is that it differs from the pulps in so many different ways. None of the characters or their relationships to each other are left unchanged.
    Eh, I don't find that so sad. If people want to read classic stories starring The Spider than they should go read classic stories starring The Spider, this incarnation of The Spider is different and set for a whole new era. I love that they changed his costume up and switched around relationships, it separates the character from what he was before and gives him a fresh spin and a new start, much like the Nolan Batman flicks did for Batman or the X-Men flicks did for X-Men. Not all material has to be 100% compliant to the source and I'm so glad that The Spider isn't, great job with this book Dynamite!

  13. #13

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    And, if they want to read new stories featuring a character that's remotely similar?

    The problem isn't that they "updated", but that they took much of what makes the character unique and rich. I can get behind the costume change, that plays to the strength of the comics' visual medium. I can partially understand not having Ram Singh as his man-servant though it's a little too PC. But, making him his lawyer is a complete 180 of the character, it's a stupid change. The changes to Nita are stupid and completely at odds as to who the characters are. After a point, the changes beg the question why to even pretend it's supposed to be an adaptation and not just an all new character riding the classic one's coat-tails. It's not as if they couldn't do a faithful adaptation of the character that could speak to modern audiences, it's they didn't even try.

    I'm holding out hope for Roberson's mini to see a more faithful treatment of the characters.

    Funny thing about the Nolan Batman films, tweak them to bring in Nita (and not kill her in the second film), and they'd work pretty well as film adaptions for the Spider, maybe even better than Batman. But, the Nolan films don't change the core relationships Batman has with Gordon, Alfred, and Harvey Dent, etc. A big part of the reason they work is not because of what they changed, but because of what they didn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Love View Post
    And, if they want to read new stories featuring a character that's remotely similar?

    The problem isn't that they "updated", but that they took much of what makes the character unique and rich. I can get behind the costume change, that plays to the strength of the comics' visual medium. I can partially understand not having Ram Singh as his man-servant though it's a little too PC. But, making him his lawyer is a complete 180 of the character, it's a stupid change. The changes to Nita are stupid and completely at odds as to who the characters are. After a point, the changes beg the question why to even pretend it's supposed to be an adaptation and not just an all new character riding the classic one's coat-tails. It's not as if they couldn't do a faithful adaptation of the character that could speak to modern audiences, it's they didn't even try.

    I'm holding out hope for Roberson's mini to see a more faithful treatment of the characters.

    Funny thing about the Nolan Batman films, tweak them to bring in Nita (and not kill her in the second film), and they'd work pretty well as film adaptions for the Spider, maybe even better than Batman. But, the Nolan films don't change the core relationships Batman has with Gordon, Alfred, and Harvey Dent, etc. A big part of the reason they work is not because of what they changed, but because of what they didn't.
    Well maybe someday Dynamite will do a mini or something based on the classic Spider material, but as it stands I absolutely love what they're doing with The Spider and I personally wouldn't change s thing one bit. I never read the classic stuff and have no interest in going back to do that so The Spider as depicted by Dynamite is basically the definitive Spider for me, Dynamite has a crazy way of making me care for characters I wouldn't have given a second look at previously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Love View Post
    The sad thing is that it differs from the pulps in so many different ways. None of the characters or their relationships to each other are left unchanged.
    I would have to agree. Especially since none of the changes really really seem like they were made to "update" the Spider for 2012, they just read like completely random changes. The changes kinda feel like what Hollywood does with comic book movies. Stuff worked for a character for decades, but then some director that has barely read the source material insists that he knows better. We aren't at the point where Wentworth was raised by wild spider's in Gotham sewers or wearing a rubber suit with nipples yet, at least.

    The bits closest to the pulps like everyone suspecting who the Spider really is, the violence and the wild villains seem like everyone's favorite aspect of the comics, even for those that are cool with the random changes. It's like Norvell Page actually knew what he was doing 70 years ago. Wild notion. LOL.
    Last edited by MichaelPaytonMZ; 07-21-2012 at 01:16 PM.

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