Wonder Woman in JL 11 Spoilers ****

**Mecegirl** · 07-19-2012, 06:47 AM

Originally Posted by brettc1

I'm not seeing a lot of love for Green Lantern.

In fact her remarks were downright caustic. Commenting on how its not giving her any pleasure "But I'm sure you've heard that before."

Jeez, that's the sort of thing you expect to hear from Emma Frost, or Cheetah. Not Wonder Woman. And then she actually cuts him with the sword!

The powerful reaction to Steve being taken is great, but her apparent loathing for Hal is anything but. I agree that after fighting side by side for 5 years its hard to believe they still feel like this towards each other. But this version Diana doesnt remind me much of Wonder Woman.

On one hand, for me it works better if there wasn't a five year jump. Hal is annoying in the JL book. I find it hard to believe that no one on the team felt the need to smack him around before.

On the other hand, if Hal's behavior never changed in all of those five years. If like in the first arc he kept hitting on Di, and kept being arrogant/patronizing around Di, but it took until now for her to snap? Girl's got some serious patience and control.

**brettc1** · 07-19-2012, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by Sacred Knight

I don't mind the idea that Diana might legitimately not really like Hal that much...there's nothing saying that all heroes have to be friends. Besides its not really something that flies in the face of any pre-reboot classic friendship or something, at least nothing like the Superman/Batman friendship or Barry/Hal. So nothing she does nor says to him particularly bothers me. If their personalities clash now so be it, and if this was really just a throwdown between two colleagues with some bad blood, that wouldn't have felt as forced even being a veteran group. But her kinda freaking out on everyone like that, that had a newbie feel to it.

The comment about him not being able to pleasure a woman was just low, no matter what the provocation.

**Mecegirl** · 07-19-2012, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by brettc1

The comment about him not being able to pleasure a woman was just low, no matter what the provocation.

Not if he's a womanizer. :/

Besides there are more serious charges to make against a guy than against their "manhood".

**GEMINUS** · 07-19-2012, 07:22 AM

We have seen her act immature in an instant. Up until now, I feel as if she has been portrayed as a compassionate, motherly figure who enjoys a good brawl. We cant take this one incident, and claim it to be indicative of her entire character. In my eyes, she is usually calm and collected, but Steve Trevor is like kryptonite to her emotional fortitude. I can handle that. I like my heroes with a few chinks in their armor. As for her venomous remarks towards Hal, I say he had it coming. He has been shown as a complete self-centered jerk, and I am surprised it took this long for someone to hit him. I see nothing wrong with Wondie having claws. Loving everyone doesn't always mean you have to be nice to them 100% of the time. 95% is good enough.

**Seant** · 07-19-2012, 07:26 AM

It's not personal when a guy who goes around bragging he's a womanizer. That's impersonal, a facade. She should take him down.

It's a lot less personal than saying "hey, we know how you feel," and then spelling it out for her like, "see, we all know, okay?" That's a really crappy and stupid thing to do when someone is about to blow a gasket, and it's incredibly undisciplined in a combat situation, especially when you understand Diana and Hal are not close, they're almost antagonistic to each other. He's purposefully pushing her buttons. She was very controlled when she said "let me go," twice. She warned him. And an Amazon does not like to be constrained.

**brettc1** · 07-19-2012, 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mecegirl

Not if he's a womanizer. :/

Besides there are more serious charges to make against a guy than against their "manhood".

No, there isn't. And especially if he is a womanizer. And what does that even mean anymore, in an age where both women and men have aps to seek out partners for casual dalliances?

**Seant** · 07-19-2012, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by brettc1

No, there isn't. And especially if he is a womanizer. And what does that even mean anymore, in an age where both women and men have aps to seek out partners for casual dalliances?

Okay, a player then? Someone who doesn't respect women. He thinks his d!ck makes him a king, so that's where you hit him. Why are we worried about Hal's feelings here? Oh, the poor, insecure men that Wonder Woman has to tiptoe around. Give me a break. She's insulting him, but his stance is an insult to all women.

All I can say is, this ain't the Perez Wonder Woman. She'd be all, "Oh, Hal, I don know where you're coming from, but we can only work together if we come from a position of mutual respect and admiration..."

**brettc1** · 07-19-2012, 07:38 AM

Originally Posted by Seant

It's not personal when a guy who goes around bragging he's a womanizer. That's impersonal, a facade. She should take him down.

It's a lot less personal than saying "hey, we know how you feel," and then spelling it out for her like, "see, we all know, okay?" That's a really crappy and stupid thing to do when someone is about to blow a gasket, and it's incredibly undisciplined in a combat situation, especially when you understand Diana and Hal are not close, they're almost antagonistic to each other. He's purposefully pushing her buttons. She was very controlled when she said "let me go," twice. She warned him. And an Amazon does not like to be constrained.

No they dont. But the first thing she does after she busts out [sending him flying towards a crowd of civilians who could easily have been killed] is to come after him with a sword. Which she then proceeds to cut him with!

He even says to her "Dont be as stubborn as me." He's a jerk but a well meaning jerk. Or is this no longer Green Lantern, one of the great heroes of Earth?

Batman has Flash getting people to safety because he obviously thinks sooner or later they are going to kill some innocent bystander.

**brettc1** · 07-19-2012, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by Seant

Okay, a player then? Someone who doesn't respect women. He thinks his d!ck makes him a king, so that's where you hit him. Why are we worried about Hal's feelings here? Oh, the poor, insecure men that Wonder Woman has to tiptoe around. Give me a break.

All I can say is, this ain't the Perez Wonder Woman. She'd be all, "Oh, Hal, I don know where you're coming from, but we can only work together if we come from a position of mutual respect and admiration..."

So in a civilian populution centre with people all over the place the plan is to goad your teammate into lashing out and then try to kill him with your sword?

That is just stupid and reckless. Hitting him once - sure. Risking innocent lives [including Steve's sister nearby] to try and go on with it is not heroic.

And when did Hal become a villain? Does he not still risk his life to save people? Was there an email I missed?

**Desean101101** · 07-19-2012, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by thepenguin

This issue feels a little better because we get to see some more of the team. I would say the book has suffered because Geoff has not done that in the last few issues. He deliberately wrote the team as splintered and self involved. That's fine for the first year. But it is stupid that it lasted for 5 years. What kind of people are we dealing with here? The threat of Graves isn't all that either. He feels hollow to drive the teams motivations.Wonder Woman has proven in all this stuff with Trevor and wanting to slice Hal is she has a lot of growing up to do still. And it makes sense in the context she is only 23 and still very much grappling with the world and her emotions. She is acting like a teenager, who hates being told what to do...is driven by strong emotions etc. And I guess in a way she is. Physical confrontation probably does not bug her because she is an Amazon afterall.I suppose when the team starts acting like one she will start to learn restraint.

Her Characterization is alot like the Justice League Cartoon actually now that I think about it.

**Seant** · 07-19-2012, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by brettc1

No they dont. But the first thing she does after she busts out [sending him flying towards a crowd of civilians who could easily have been killed] is to come after him with a sword. Which she then proceeds to cut him with!

He even says to her "Dont be as stubborn as me." He's a jerk but a well meaning jerk.

Well that's the point. This is Diana's time to freak out and be stubborn. What are Hal's stakes here? His ego is at stake of being wounded. She's being stubborn because she's in a really bad place. He's being stubborn because he's always at a bad place, always worried about saving face. Batman was handling it but GL has to swoop in and say, "hey lady, cool it" and putting her in a box. It's not helpful. He's throwing his ego around and it almost ruins everything. That's not how you handle a situation like that.

Like I said-- Diana= she's probably killed the man she loves from her stupid mistakes. GL= needs to be the hero, needs to swoop in and save. Who's making the situation worse?

**Mecegirl** · 07-19-2012, 07:51 AM

Originally Posted by brettc1

No, there isn't. And especially if he is a womanizer. And what does that even mean anymore, in an age where both women and men have aps to seek out partners for casual dalliances?

Do you not know that womanizer has a negative connotation? It is not just dating multiple people. It's about a lack of respect. It is about treating women like they are targets, not individuals that you wish to spend time with. Or if a individual has some misguided belief that their worth is determined by how many women they can date.

**WhitOro** · 07-19-2012, 07:53 AM

I don't accept any excuse here "They were pushing her buttons" stuff like that.
You know what happen in this issue? Wonder Woman punched several nigh invulnerable beings across a densely pupolated area. Both Superman and Green Lantern went crashing on the ground destroying cars left and right.
Have you any idea what would have happen if one of them hit a human being? A Pollock, that's what.

An intelligent, capable warrior that "loves everybody" would have thought better than do something this stupid, no matter the circunstances. And the fact that these guys fought togheter for five years yet they still go at each others throats and throw schoolyard level taunts is ridiculous.
And that's the problem with this league... everybody is STUPID or wildly out of character.
In her title, like I said, Wonder Woman is "I love everyone", she thinks before acting, none of her actions are without meaning, and when a dear friend is in danger, instead of freaking out she actually comes up with a plan (Zola-Hell). Here she's "I'M GONNA CHOP HEADS BECAUSE I'M PISSED!"
In his own title, Hal Jordan is kind of brash and impulsive, yes, but here he's a complete imbecille, completely braindead and immature.

I know I should to suspend my disbelief "It's a comicbook, pulp narrative, you're not suppoused to think about it!", but I accepted this crap for the first six issues, where everybody was young and brash and where the purpose wasn't really telling a good story, but telling a nice little 6 issues Trade that would sell like Hell through new readers. Now I want a real book, a book were characters acts like they actually worked togheter for more than three hours.