Journey Into Mystery #641 *Spoilers*

[CyberHubbs]

Wait. What happened to Thori?

[plushbug]

Tom Hiddleston as an evil mag-pie....Oh for the love of all that's nerdy YESSS!!!!!

YESSS!!!!! Oh, what a gorgeous idea, that makes me want to get up and jump around the room, just thinking about it!

Wait. What happened to Thori?

He stays home with Volstagg, this issue. He'll be back, there's a mention in the solicits about him offering his solution to "Everything Burns"...my immediate bet being, that lifting a leg on it will be involved.

[CyberHubbs]

He stays home with Volstagg, this issue. He'll be back, there's a mention in the solicits about him offering his solution to "Everything Burns"...my immediate bet being, that lifting a leg on it will be involved.

Oh, that's fine. I thought I read earlier in the thread that something happens to him.

[liopleurodon]

I swear, I almost cried.

[Rosebunse]

After reading this, I really, really think Gillen is pulling a bait and switch...This series is about Hela! She's been in it since the third or fourth issue! She's the key to Loki's happiness!

I realized something, that she didn't just give Loki Leah to spy on him, but rather to make him have a friend, someone who he could confide in, someone who he could have adventures with and then snatch her away.

And now, thanks to the power of what we think, she is his daughter...A daughter he's hurt time and time again.

[Post Monster]

After reading this, I really, really think Gillen is pulling a bait and switch...This series is about Hela! She's been in it since the third or fourth issue! She's the key to Loki's happiness!

I realized something, that she didn't just give Loki Leah to spy on him, but rather to make him have a friend, someone who he could confide in, someone who he could have adventures with and then snatch her away.

And now, thanks to the power of what we think, she is his daughter...A daughter he's hurt time and time again.

I don't get the feeling Hela's doing this to be vengeful, I think she's always assumed Loki knew what was going on. At the most, I think she's wanted to keep a close eye on him since he tried to off himself spiritually in Siege.

[seekquaze]

First things first. The Manchester Gods arc and JIM in general is a perfect example of how to write a comic. We have plot lines that even with a lot of talking are well developed. Characters we meet only for a few issues are well-rounded. We are invested enough in the characters to care about what happens to them. Emotional payoff is a big plus. Plot lines are built up slowly over several story arcs. It successfully alludes to major plot points in past continuity and respects its own. And everything I have said above applies to even the more average or lesser comics of this series.

Now, with that said...Loki is doomed. Either way I look at it this is the truth. Fate it seems is out to get Loki. We see Loki grow as a character this issue to try and be more honest with others. At the same time Loki is still Loki. He is prone to chaos, lying, and manipulation. That is both his strength and his doom. The character growth of this issue might have save him a few stories back, but by now it may be too little too late. We will have to wait and see.

As anyone might know from the previews Loki betrays the old gods to aid the Manchester gods thinking this is progress. Does Loki make the right decision? Ultimately only time will tell. Democracy may not be for Otherworld. The new regime may be as bad or worse than the old.

Funny enough though, the Manchester gods take a back seat behind the other major event of this issue. Loki settles his debt with Hela at a price many can probable already guess, but makes it no less sad. The shock of this combined with what is coming up is what will probable doom Loki.

All of Loki's secrets and schemes keep piling up at a higher and higher cost. A cost that may eventually break him. His latest scheme achieved what his goal in the short-term, but once again stands to destroy him in the long-term.

Artwise, Elson does an excellent job. The facial expressions are key in an issue like this and Elson captures the emotion perfectly. Kudos also to colorists Ifansyan Noor and Sotocolor.

All in all a perfect example of how to tell an interesting story in only three issues while working on what was built up from before.

Story: 10/10
Art: 9.5/10
Overall: 9.7/10

[Post Monster]

Now, with that said...Loki is doomed. Either way I look at it this is the truth. Fate it seems is out to get Loki. We see Loki grow as a character this issue to try and be more honest with others. At the same time Loki is still Loki. He is prone to chaos, lying, and manipulation. That is both his strength and his doom. The character growth of this issue might have save him a few stories back, but by now it may be too little too late. We will have to wait and see.

That line about handmaiden's being made for sacrifice is an eerie potential omen regarding Kid Loki's relationship to Ikol. Yet we know he's going to make it at least into another series, so no doom on the horizon yet. I'm not sure how Marvel will handle things. At any rate, I get the feeling things are going to go downhill for Loki until he runs away from home or something. After the mess with Surtur I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave because he feels it's the only way to protect Asgard. At any rate I expect an emotionally wrung out Loki to move into Gillen's new series.

What Loki really needs is a mentor to help keep him on track until he gets old enough to really understand how things work. Kid-Loki isn't mature enough to make the right call all the time. Also, I think it's possible for him to turn out not evil, but he's going to need some serious guidance and backup he'll listen to. Loki needs to learn:

1. He's not alone and doesn't have to solve every problem himself.
2. He has to think through his actions and not just react impulsively. He's a good plotter, but he doesn't look at the long term ramifications as carefully as he should. The kid just needs to slow down.
3. He's got to stop looking for everyone's approval and be content with your own. Loki's bitterness is coming from expecting everyone else to meet his emotional need for approval.
4. Learn that relationships should involve both giving and getting. Loki's relationships tend to be one way or the other, with him either giving and getting nothing back, or getting and giving nothing back.
5. Get some permanence into his life. He has no schedule, no people to raise him, no friends to share his burdens with, nothing to rely on that's safe other than Thor. This is not good for his mental or emotional well being.

[jackolover]

That line about handmaiden's being made for sacrifice is an eerie potential omen regarding Kid Loki's relationship to Ikol. Yet we know he's going to make it at least into another series, so no doom on the horizon yet. I'm not sure how Marvel will handle things. At any rate, I get the feeling things are going to go downhill for Loki until he runs away from home or something. After the mess with Surtur I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave because he feels it's the only way to protect Asgard. At any rate I expect an emotionally wrung out Loki to move into Gillen's new series.

Has Loki been reunited with a returned Thor yet? We've seen Thor in SVX and Avengers Assembled, but has Thor seen Loki?

[Post Monster]

Has Loki been reunited with a returned Thor yet? We've seen Thor in SVX and Avengers Assembled, but has Thor seen Loki?

I don't think so. Loki's going to be a wreck by the time he gets back.

[seekquaze]

1. He's not alone and doesn't have to solve every problem himself.
2. He has to think through his actions and not just react impulsively. He's a good plotter, but he doesn't look at the long term ramifications as carefully as he should. The kid just needs to slow down.
3. He's got to stop looking for everyone's approval and be content with your own. Loki's bitterness is coming from expecting everyone else to meet his emotional need for approval.
4. Learn that relationships should involve both giving and getting. Loki's relationships tend to be one way or the other, with him either giving and getting nothing back, or getting and giving nothing back.
5. Get some permanence into his life. He has no schedule, no people to raise him, no friends to share his burdens with, nothing to rely on that's safe other than Thor. This is not good for his mental or emotional well being.

1. True, but in Asgard no one will trust him and they do not know to trust him. Sadly, given older Loki this is perfectly reasonable.
2. Part of this is Loki does not always have time to think of a better solution or his actions through. Other times when he does have a few moments he does not seem to consider it. One of his main problems is by constantly lying to everyone and hiding what he is doing when the crap hits the fan everyone will blame him. They could be preparing for the future, but do not know to prepare. Every problem he has solved unfortunely is at best a stop gap to much larger problems. Defeating Cul freed Surtur. Stalemating the Fear-Lords raises the possibility of an all-powerful fear-lord arising in the future. Stopping the war in Otherworld has thrown it in political turbulence for years instead of putting the old regime in Asgard's favor. If Loki's treachery is ever learned it would be a return to the Cold War. Worse, and this part Loki cannot really be blamed for, this served as a testing ground/source of new weapons for Surtur.
3. Agreed, a big problem here is once again if the rest of Asgard learns what he has done they would potentially kill him. He wants approval and may even get it to a degree, but the wrath of Asgard would be upon him.
4. With Leah he seemed to be getting somewhere, but that is gone. He does need something more like a friend or mentor. The problem is once again no one in Asgard would trust him and with good reason.
5. I think this would be a good reason for hm to hook up with other teens. The All-Mothers are too busy running things to give Loki the attention he needs. Odin does not want to go through it again. Volstagg has his own family to worry about and probable does not want Loki near them. Thor is too old to fully relate and is too busy fighting. And once again no one else in Asgard will trust him. Heck, most heroes would not trust him.

In the end it comes down to what a lot of people have been saying since the beginning. Asgard is not a good place for Loki because there are too many memories. Thor was a selfish idiot to bring him back and expect everyone to accept Loki after everything he has done. Thor cannot be always around. The All-Mothers are too busy. The only hope for Loki is too get away from Asgard.

[Rosebunse]

What Loki really needs is a mentor to help keep him on track until he gets old enough to really understand how things work. Kid-Loki isn't mature enough to make the right call all the time. Also, I think it's possible for him to turn out not evil, but he's going to need some serious guidance and backup he'll listen to. Loki needs to learn:

1. He's not alone and doesn't have to solve every problem himself.
2. He has to think through his actions and not just react impulsively. He's a good plotter, but he doesn't look at the long term ramifications as carefully as he should. The kid just needs to slow down.
3. He's got to stop looking for everyone's approval and be content with your own. Loki's bitterness is coming from expecting everyone else to meet his emotional need for approval.
4. Learn that relationships should involve both giving and getting. Loki's relationships tend to be one way or the other, with him either giving and getting nothing back, or getting and giving nothing back.
5. Get some permanence into his life. He has no schedule, no people to raise him, no friends to share his burdens with, nothing to rely on that's safe other than Thor. This is not good for his mental or emotional well being.

All these things were clearly problems for the old Loki too. Which is quite sad, too...

Actually, his reliance on Thor while not wanting to actually trust him is beginning to become very disturbing. You know Volstagg at the least would be there for him if he asked. In fact, there are probably lots of people Loki could ask for help right now, but he won't. And he doesn't trust Thor to trust him, so he doesn't turn to him when something happens to him. And lots and lots of people would understand and know how he feels right now, but he won't go to them. He won't even let them know there's something wrong until he snaps, like what he did with the All-Mother.

Has Loki been reunited with a returned Thor yet? We've seen Thor in SVX and Avengers Assembled, but has Thor seen Loki?

I think Thor is very, very busy and likes it that way. He probably assumes that Loki is safe at home studying, maybe making mischief at home, but he probably thinks his collective of mothers wouldn't let anything happen to their son and, more importantly, his beloved little brother.

I think Thor is going to be the one to get him out of Asgard and into the Avengers. I mean, being an Avenger is one of the major things that straightened him out. He'll probably think what worked for him and so many others will work for Loki.

[plushbug]

Has Loki been reunited with a returned Thor yet? We've seen Thor in SVX and Avengers Assembled, but has Thor seen Loki?

He has. It's implied at the start of Exiled, that with Thor's return things have stepped back to normal...which is to say, we've got Loki asking Ikol (about Thor's return) "It's good. Isn't it?" and Ikol replying, "Oh, Loki." We also have Thor not asking any of the obvious questions when Loki tells him the Disir are on the loose...and the most telling scene between them, as Thor drags Thori off Loki's arm, a-gain, is:

Thor: You named the dog after me?
Loki: No, it was another Thor. One who had the good grace not to go and get himself killed and leave me alone with these barbarians.

So for low values of "seen" and "reunited", the answer is yes, but given the extent to which these characters don't talk to each other, um...effectively? Not a hope.

Another thing that not clear, is how much Thor knows about Ikol.

[jackolover]

He has. It's implied at the start of Exiled, that with Thor's return things have stepped back to normal...which is to say, we've got Loki asking Ikol (about Thor's return) "It's good. Isn't it?" and Ikol replying, "Oh, Loki." We also have Thor not asking any of the obvious questions when Loki tells him the Disir are on the loose...and the most telling scene between them, as Thor drags Thori off Loki's arm, a-gain, is:

Thor: You named the dog after me?
Loki: No, it was another Thor. One who had the good grace not to go and get himself killed and leave me alone with these barbarians.

So for low values of "seen" and "reunited", the answer is yes, but given the extent to which these characters don't talk to each other, um...effectively? Not a hope.

Another thing that not clear, is how much Thor knows about Ikol.

this conversation actually takes place? What book was this?

[plushbug]

this conversation actually takes place? What book was this?

Exiled--the intro issue for the JIM/New Mutants crossover.



IMO a lot more could have been done with this bit!