The Dark Knight Rises -- Movie discussion thread [spoilers]

[pryde15]

Whilst that is true, Batman is just fundamentally not a realistic character.

It's not realistic for a guy to be a super genius is dozens of different fields, a master martial artist of hundreds of different disciplines, a Sherlock Holmes esque detective, a Houdini esque escape artist, an Olympic level athlete in every single area. And on top of that, a billionaire businessman and sociolite.

Those things are defining traits of Batman in any interpretation. People seem to think Batman is a realistic superhero because he's a normal human who uses his intelligence and tech. No, he isn't a normal human. It's not normal for a human to be that good in so many different fields.

No, they think he is a realistic character because he is set in a realistic environment...at least in the context of the films.

[transvestitegod]

By the way, Nolan missed out on a great nod to the 60s series.

"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Would've been amazing.

[numberthirty]

By the way, Nolan missed out on a great nod to the 60s series.

"Some days, you just can't get rid of a bomb."

Would've been amazing.

Actually, that scene is pretty close to the sixties film.

[Shadaloo]

That specific line popped into my head as we left the theatre just now. Had to have been intentional. Just had to have been. Kudos.

[El Sombrero]

I think that the issue with the third film is that it felt like a super-hero film while the first two were more so about a vigilante in a hyper-realistic setting that dealt with a lot of social issues in a more nuissanced manner. The political overtones were just shoved down our throat in this one while being set in what felt like the most successful Marvel Studios film.

But even with this in mind I still loved Dark Knight Rises, I think they did a stand up job with No Man's Land and it featured what I would consider Nolan's strongest female character to date (it should be mentioned that JGL and the Hath totally stole the show, I wish they had more screen time than they already did). As a stand alone film, Dark Knight Rises is a good movie but as the end to the Nolan Trilogy it seemed out of place.

I pretty much agree with your whole review, and especially with the bolded parts. You said what I was trying to say.

Whilst that is true, Batman is just fundamentally not a realistic character.

It's not realistic for a guy to be a super genius is dozens of different fields, a master martial artist of hundreds of different disciplines, a Sherlock Holmes esque detective, a Houdini esque escape artist, an Olympic level athlete in every single area. And on top of that, a billionaire businessman and sociolite.

Those things are defining traits of Batman in any interpretation. People seem to think Batman is a realistic superhero because he's a normal human who uses his intelligence and tech. No, he isn't a normal human. It's not normal for a human to be that good in so many different fields.

I disagree with this. I understand what you are saying but I think the core hook of Batman is that he is a real human being and that anyone can ultimately be Batman. Of course in real life no one is going to be a master of dozens of academic fields and martial arts and have x billions of dollars to blow on future tech, but it is technically possible. That's pretty much the whole point of the character. Literally no one can be Superman or Green Lantern or the Flash, but you could be Batman. Creators always push that to the limit but that, again, is the point of the character.

Bruce fakes his and Batman's deaths and gives Blake access to the cave so that he can continue on being Batman.

You think this is what happened? I took it as Alfred seeing Bruce and Selina at the end was just a mirage, him dreaming up what he wanted to see or whatever. I don't see how Bruce could have possibly escaped the nuclear blast in time...

[bw38]

Saw the film and definitely thought it was a great ending to the trilogy.

There is one thing though that I missed. Why did Ra's Al Ghul put his daughter in that pit (Bane's prison)? I recall something about his wife, but it's all very fuzzy right now since so much happened towards the end of the film.

And btw that's a great observation about Knightfall/No Man's Land. Never even occurred to me, but it definitely portrayed it very well I think for an action film.

Also, in regards to Bane's voice: you could hear in the audience people wondering what he said half the time. Definitely wish they had subtitles for his parts. I'll probably enjoy this film more on Blu-Ray with subtitles because of his voice.

And Talia definitely caught me by surprise until a few minutes before she stabbed Batman.

I was very reluctant about Catwoman in the film, but was left very impressed after seeing Anne Hathaway's performance. Although, how she ended up betraying Batman during the scene where Bane breaks Batman's really hurt to see. You could see as soon as she saw Bane completely demolish Batman that she regretted her actions.

[numberthirty]

You think this is what happened? I took it as Alfred seeing Bruce and Selina at the end was just a mirage, him dreaming up what he wanted to see or whatever. I don't see how Bruce could have possibly escaped the nuclear blast in time...

Fox finds out that Wayne had fixed the auto pilot at an unknown time before the events of the film take place.

[Tandaemonium]

Whilst that is true, Batman is just fundamentally not a realistic character.

It's not realistic for a guy to be a super genius is dozens of different fields, a master martial artist of hundreds of different disciplines, a Sherlock Holmes esque detective, a Houdini esque escape artist, an Olympic level athlete in every single area. And on top of that, a billionaire businessman and sociolite.

Those things are defining traits of Batman in any interpretation. People seem to think Batman is a realistic superhero because he's a normal human who uses his intelligence and tech. No, he isn't a normal human. It's not normal for a human to be that good in so many different fields.

Aside from Olympic level athlete, one name comes to mind that fits all the rest you listed...William McGovern. Who knows, though, maybe he was that too but it just wasn't quantifiable.

Anyways, just got back from the DK Trilogy marathon/midnight showing...

I wasn't expecting to like it more than TDK, but it turns out that I'm pleasantly surprised by how much more I like it than TDK.

Like the other DK films, there's always one character I could do without...usually in the role of "exposition guy":

BB - Wayne Tower panic-y metrorail guy.
TDK - Whiny cop riding shotgun with in-disguise Gordon.
and now
TDKR - mentor/guide/prisoner guy.

Also all the DK films have some pandering to children moment I could do without:
BB - King Joffrey getting the grappling gun.
TDK - The kids in car imagining shooting up cars followed by actual BOOM.
TDKR - "No! It's Batman!" ala every Spider-Man/Superman movie ever made.

And lastly the flashback scenes added to TDK and TDKR from previous films because some audience members are too dumb to remember things:
- Thomas Wayne descending the well w/ trite cliche line. Get it? Bane, Bruce...they both were at the bottom of pits! Get it? Parallels. Pits. Depths. America.
- Hey everyone, remember the guy Liam Neeson played in the first movie? This is him...who they're talking about. No? Take another look. Still no? Okay, here's him saying it and stuff.
- Don't remember Harvey Dent? Even though three pictures of him are on screen right now. One sec here he is with half a face. Still no? Take another look at this footage...it's the same guy with half a face....whose name was just mentioned.
- Why's Batman suddenly telling this random story about a nice cop putting a blanket on a little boy. Flashback time!

Absolutely none of the flashback scenes are necessary. I'm not speaking as a comics or Batfan, just as a normal person at the movies.

All 3 DK films are different kinds of movies, but do a great job still maintaining a cohesiveness to them, so well done. BB was the closest to comic bookyness traditionalness plus WB brass still being hands on pre-believing in Nolan via things like the inclusion of Katie Holmes. TDK was Michael Mann does Batman noir/crime/gritty/real. And finally we have TDKR which is just a huge over-the-top huge global scale peril version of a Tale of Two Cities. It's weird, but it's kind of hard or unfair to compare it to the TDK, even tho for some reason it's "more okay" to compare TDK to BB or any comic movie, really. It's just a different sort of film within a franchise in the sense of say the Bond films like say comparing From Russia With Love to an Octopussy - they're both Bond films...even the same continuity but they're definitely not the same genre or tone. Yet at the same time it is unavoidable and fair to compare this film (most likely with TDK or) with any film really. I hope that makes some kind of sense despite the contradictory nature.

Fox finds out that Wayne had fixed the auto pilot at an unknown time before the events of the film take place.

Yup. Why else include dialogue/exposition about autopilot if you're not going to ever shoot that gun?

[numberthirty]

There is one thing though that I missed. Why did Ra's Al Ghul put his daughter in that pit (Bane's prison)? I recall something about his wife, but it's all very fuzzy right now since so much happened towards the end of the film.

I think that Ra's is given his freedom in exchange for the mother being imprisoned. He was not told she was pregnant.

[bw38]

You think this is what happened? I took it as Alfred seeing Bruce and Selina at the end was just a mirage, him dreaming up what he wanted to see or whatever. I don't see how Bruce could have possibly escaped the nuclear blast in time...

How was it a mirage? Alfred knew nothing about Bruce and Selina's romance. Just that she was a jewel thief. Also, there was multiple references to the 'clean slate' program which Catwoman was after. Also, it was revealed that the autopilot bug was resolved 6 months prior. Add all that up, Bruce lived. I didn't think this would be something up to interpretation like Inception's ending.

[Guglio08]

I just got home from the midnight show. Incidentally, I saw the whole marathon showing, which was great. I could tell that the people I went with didn't enjoy it as much as I did, but I think that comes with the territory at this point.

Simply, I love Batman Begins, and I will always find Begins to be the best of the bunch. Having said that, I loved TDKR. It wasn't just a "sequel," it was an actual continuation of the previous movies' stories. Catwoman was great, but Bane was amazing. Also the Talia reveal was good, if not predictable, and I really enjoyed the Liam Neeson cameo. I was a bit sad that Josh Pence had no lines as Young Ra's, but whatever. Incidentally, I loved the "Lazarus Pit" as a prison, where the strong willed rise from darkness.

And JGL killed his role. I was actually in tears at the end, when Bruce was alive, Batman was "dead" and Blake found the Bat cave. A brilliant ending to a brilliant trilogy, and I'm glad to have experienced it.

[bw38]

I will also add one thing that did bug me is how this character John Blake comes out of nowhere and seems to know who Batman is under the mask. The whole story with how he can read faces just didn't work for me. And Bruce didn't seem to care about this cop knowing his identity.

[Agent_Dark]

There is one thing though that I missed. Why did Ra's Al Ghul put his daughter in that pit (Bane's prison)? I recall something about his wife, but it's all very fuzzy right now since so much happened towards the end of the film.

Ra's didn't put anyone in the pit. Ra's wife who was pregnant was put in the pit to serve out Ra's sentence in lieu of the Warlord being able to punish Ra's. It's initially implied that Bane was the one who was born in that prison (and therefore being Ra's son), but it turns out that Talia was the one born in the prison. I thought it was a cool little twist on Bane's origin that certainly came as a surprise to me. Especially when they pretty much lifted his origins straight from the comics at the start of the movie.

[bw38]

Ra's didn't put anyone in the pit. Ra's wife who was pregnant was put in the pit to serve out Ra's sentence in lieu of the Warlord being able to punish Ra's. It's initially implied that Bane was the one who was born in that prison (and therefore being Ra's son), but it turns out that Talia was the one born in the prison. I thought it was a cool little twist on Bane's origin that certainly came as a surprise to me. Especially when they pretty much lifted his origins straight from the comics at the start of the movie.

Yea the implication Bane was Ra's Al Ghul's son was a WTF moment for me. Not in a bad way either. I just thought, "Hmm that's an interesting twist to his origin". Then it turns out he was just another prisoner who protected that little girl.

[Doctor Voodoo]

Great movie... almost lost my voice on that ending...

Going to sleep now, -listens to Dark Knight Rises Soundtrack to go to sleep-