The Dark Knight Rises -- Movie discussion thread [spoilers]

[Cowtools]

Also. HOLLY ROBINSON!!!

Holy smoke, I forget about that!
Was she ever actually named though?

[Officersmile1466]

Yay for us in Australian getting the movie early. We rock like that (well not normally).

So I just saw it and here's what I thought:

WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS!!!!!






GOOD:

-Bane: He kicks ass, he breaks backs over his knee but he's actually a lot more entertaining that he appeared to be in the trailers. Considering his comic version is pretty damn serious, it was a great surprise to see he can actually be a lot of fun.

-Catwoman: Add her to the list of characters Nolan has rescued. She's fun, flirty and is really good in a fight. Really loved how she was never actually given the name Catwoman in the film.

-Acknowedging the comic history, sometimes to our downfall: Bane's origin is pretty similar to his comic counterpart. Or is it though? Nolan presents us with what the comic fan will eat up as lore and then gleefully turns it on it's head.

-Tahlia: We all KNEW it was her. Right from the very start. They denied it but it was always obvious. But considering Morrison has been giving the character far more of a work out of late, it's nice that she further gets a profile boost here.

-Joesph Gordon Levitt: What can be said? He's awesome. Practically steals the movie. It's just a shame they didn't break convention and have the film be told entirely from his point of view.

-Crane: Dr Crane doesn't have to be there, but he is and that's awesome. Ironic he's like the one criminal in the franchise who got away clean.

-Ending: The ending isn't perfect. Whether or not it's a cop out or not will no doubt be debated for a while but at least it ends in a rather fitting manner.

-Scale: Nolan makes his movies feel big but more importantly feel real. Some amazing action sequences here that all feel like lives are really at risk.

-Robin type character: Christian Bale and Christopher Nolan may openly dislike Robin as a kid in yellow but they understand at least why Batman needs an underling or at least someone to inspire and pass the torch too.

-Full circle: The films ties nicely back with Batman Begins, making the whole series feel nice and complete.


NOT SO GOOD:

-Where is Alfred?: he leaves in act one, seems like he'll make a return and then...doesn't really...hmmm

-Miranda Tate: Come on, we ALL KNEW WHO SHE WAS! Sadly I have a feeling if you don't have a grasp of who her character is you'll be largely confused by this revelation.

-What happened to Bane?: Considering he makes such a good impression he kind of ends pretty fast.

-Robin: Seriously? That's his name? Why not have his real name be Grayson or just Dick? That way it wouldn't feel so obvious (Though i guess they wanted to make it clear to all the non fans)

-It happened what now?: The film requires multiple leaps of logic. Dark Knight required this too but this one expects us to believe Gotham could descend into outright insanity relatively fast. Also how to Bane take Bruce to some foreign prison and then get back so fast? And how did Bruce get into locked down Gotham without any issue?

-Ending: It got ssssssoooo close to being pefect. Just show Blake as batman, let him take on that kid as his sidekick/protege. Oh well, one can dream.

[Eric Chang]

Holy smoke, I forget about that!
Was she ever actually named though?

Not sure about full name but she was definitely called Holly.

[Eric Chang]

-Robin: Seriously? That's his name? Why not have his real name be Grayson or just Dick? That way it wouldn't feel so obvious (Though i guess they wanted to make it clear to all the non fans)

I think it's because he's an*amalgamation of all the robins.

He's a cop like Dick Grayson.
He deduced batman's identity like Tim Drake.
He was a street orphan like Jason Todd.

[Ironman2978]

Was the Joker mentioned? What happened to Jim Gordon?

[Ginkasa]

Not sure about full name but she was definitely called Holly.

No, she wasn't. The credits list her as "Jen" and I don't think she was ever actually referred to by name.

Was the Joker mentioned? What happened to Jim Gordon?

No, the Joker was not mentioned. Jim Gordon is still alive and well and commissioner at the end.

[DebkoX]

Just got back from the midnight screening here in Canberra. (some great cosplay BTW!)

My verdict: Brilliant. A totally satisfying end to the trilogy. As a movie in itself, just a shade below The Dark Knight.

I loved:

- Bane. He's basically a more erudite Darth Vader (complete with being the second-in-command to the real enemy). He is totally brutal and ruthless. Tom Hardy's florid line readings totally sold the character. Comparisons to the Joker are inevitable, but the key difference is that Joker tried to destroy Gotham in the name of his twisted ideals, while for Bane, his 'ideals' were just another means to the end of destroying Gotham.

- Catwoman. She had a proper (if conventional) character arc. She got to carry most of the film's humour. And she totally kicked ass in the fight scenes. Also, I believe that she never actually wore her razor high heels while fighting, so that's a plus. Hathaway completely sold her snarky side and her 'wounded antihero' side. Anyone who debates whether Hathaway was 'sexy enough' for the role just completely missed the point of the character.

- No Man's Land! So surprising to see that this was the story's main source, and that they pulled of a compacted version so well.

- Bane breaks the Bat! Or at least he thinks he does...

- So great to see a happy ending for Bruce, and Alfred. Was actually not expecting it. Everyone who decries Nolan's movies as too dark and cynical should be placated by this. If not, then nothing can help them...

- Robin!

- The climactic action was beyond incredible. Less epic and all-encompassing than the climax of Avengers, but better choreographed. Plus, you were actually in suspense as to which characters would live or die (unlike The Avengers - which I loved - where the fact that all the heroes would survive was never in doubt - because that wasn't the point of the movie). I was convinced either Gordon or Selina would bite it.

- Michael Caine was incredible. Not just in the sense that it's Michael Caine, and he's always incredible; his scenes in the film almost drive me to tears.

- Crane is back! He is the only villain to last all three movies!

- All the '1% vs the 99%'/'Occupy Gotham' style stuff was mainly for show and confined to the scenes in the trailer. This movie wasn't about social issues; it was - rightfully - more focused on finished Batman's story satisfyingly.

- Epic score. Best of the Nolan movies by far

I loved slightly less:

- Everybody had already guessed that Miranda Tate was Talia, so leaving that revelation til the end kinda robbed it of its shock value.

- Some of Bane's early dialogue was hard to understand, but about halfway through it ceased to matter. You could understand him clearly when it was necessary.

- I was kinda disappointed that Blake's real name wasn't Grayson or Drake, but what they used was fine too. (especially since they said they never would).

- Really, would it have killed them to throw in a few last-minute references to Bat-lore, like Gordon's daughter coming to visit, or bystanders named Steph Brown or Matches Malone or something.

YOU JUST RUINED THE ROBIN PART ;[ Please email me more spoilers xD

[Cowtools]

I think it's because he's an*amalgamation of all the robins.

He's a cop like Dick Grayson.
He deduced batman's identity like Tim Drake.
He was a street orphan like Jason Todd.

Nice catch!

YOU JUST RUINED THE ROBIN PART ;[ Please email me more spoilers xD

Well, this is the thread for spoilers. nd see above for an explanation.

[El Sombrero]

Just got back from the movie.

It's certainly a good film, no question. But it is my least favorite of the Nolan trilogy and the only one that I was a bit disappointed after it was over.

I think the movie takes things too far and moves out of the realm of what a Batman movie should feel like. The first two movies were much darker and street level and basically focused around crime and criminals. This movie has a much more terrorism type slant, and the threats are so far beyond crime that it just feels like the nature of the movie itself is different. It's too epic and the stakes are too high, it sort of loses the street level appeal of Batman to me.

I understand that Nolan wanted to adapt the Knightfall story, but having Bruce broken and coming back, and the ending, it felt a little too overblown and difficult to believe. I know it's a superhero movie and a fictional character, but I think Batman Begins and The Dark Knight ultimately felt like "this could happen" movies, and TDKR sort of crosses that imaginary line into where it's hard to accept the illusion.

All the actors were fantastic and Hathaway and Hardy in particular were phenomenal. I wish Catwoman had WAY more screen time as I thought her character was really interesting and handled perfectly. Bane was absolutely terrifying and evil and again handled perfectly.

I'll see it again, maybe my expectations were too high or something, but it feels like the later seasons of 24. 24 was never that realistic to begin with, but I felt like in the earlier seasons you could at least sort of play along with it, whereas at some point it crossed a line and got too epic for its own good, and the nature of the show itself changed, and that's what I think happened here.

I watched the first two Nolan movies a couple weeks ago and this is what I'd rate them all, more on personal satisfaction than critical quality:

Batman Begins - 10/10
The Dark Knight - 12/10
The Dark Knight Rises - 8/10

[Lord Bravery]

Well see i'm so happy to hear that. Batman isn't a realistic character, his films shouldn't portray him and his world as realistic. The "what if Batman was realistic and set in our world" is missing the point of the character.

[transvestitegod]

Well see i'm so happy to hear that. Batman isn't a realistic character, his films shouldn't portray him and his world as realistic. The "what if Batman was realistic and set in our world" is missing the point of the character.

What's that Bat-mite quote? That all portrayals of Batman are equally valid?
Yeah...

[Lord Bravery]

Whilst that is true, Batman is just fundamentally not a realistic character.

It's not realistic for a guy to be a super genius is dozens of different fields, a master martial artist of hundreds of different disciplines, a Sherlock Holmes esque detective, a Houdini esque escape artist, an Olympic level athlete in every single area. And on top of that, a billionaire businessman and sociolite.

Those things are defining traits of Batman in any interpretation. People seem to think Batman is a realistic superhero because he's a normal human who uses his intelligence and tech. No, he isn't a normal human. It's not normal for a human to be that good in so many different fields.

[pryde15]

I think that the issue with the third film is that it felt like a super-hero film while the first two were more so about a vigilante in a hyper-realistic setting that dealt with a lot of social issues in a more nuissanced manner. The political overtones were just shoved down our throat in this one while being set in what felt like the most successful Marvel Studios film.

But even with this in mind I still loved Dark Knight Rises, I think they did a stand up job with No Man's Land and it featured what I would consider Nolan's strongest female character to date (it should be mentioned that JGL and the Hath totally stole the show, I wish they had more screen time than they already did). As a stand alone film, Dark Knight Rises is a good movie but as the end to the Nolan Trilogy it seemed out of place.

[transvestitegod]

Whilst that is true, Batman is just fundamentally not a realistic character.

It's not realistic for a guy to be a super genius is dozens of different fields, a master martial artist of hundreds of different disciplines, a Sherlock Holmes esque detective, a Houdini esque escape artist, an Olympic level athlete in every single area. And on top of that, a billionaire businessman and sociolite.

Those things are defining traits of Batman in any interpretation. People seem to think Batman is a realistic superhero because he's a normal human who uses his intelligence and tech. No, he isn't a normal human. It's not normal for a human to be that good in so many different fields.

Have you ever heard of Da Vinci?

[Choppa]

I just got back and am tired so I'll give some initial impressions before passing out.

The movie was a freakin' mess. It wasn't paced well at all. A lot of really big moments didn't get fleshed out like they should have and were just rushed through. TDK did that really well.

Other than that I enjoyed it and appreciate the ending they came up with.

Just so it's clear, Blake's real first name is Robin, but he doesn't become Robin the character or anything like that. Bruce fakes his and Batman's deaths and gives Blake access to the cave so that he can continue on being Batman.