CCI: Northstar - Coming Out To Get Married

[Dr. Sonic]

The problem is that, once you cart something out as a show pony, you end up as quite limited with what you can do with it. Marvel put forward the full court press with Northstar's wedding, alerted the media, released multiple variant covers, made it an 'event,' et cetera. They made it a symbol of inclusion and tolerance and all that, which is fine, but it's non-condusive to ongoing, organic storytelling. Northstar's now stuck as this symbol and it significantly truncates the possibilities of his ongoing development as a character. Basically, Liu should just have them go off and retire to the Canadian Rockies or somewhere, because anything other than an idealized characterization will end up looking like slander.

[MarvelGirlBoy]

The problem is that, once you cart something out as a show pony, you end up as quite limited with what you can do with it. Marvel put forward the full court press with Northstar's wedding, alerted the media, released multiple variant covers, made it an 'event,' et cetera. They made it a symbol of inclusion and tolerance and all that, which is fine, but it's non-condusive to ongoing, organic storytelling. Northstar's now stuck as this symbol and it significantly truncates the possibilities of his ongoing development as a character. Basically, Liu should just have them go off and retire to the Canadian Rockies or somewhere, because anything other than an idealized characterization will end up looking like slander.

I agree, retire Northstar so that he can "represent" some horrific stereotype-avoiding gay idyll in the ether.

Then give me more stories with Daken and other characters with non-2D sexuality.

[Hi-Fi]

Not cheating on your husband and being "neutered" isn't the same thing. Too often promiscuity is a stereotype the gay community (sadly) often deserve (as a whole, not individuals). Wiccan and Hulkling aren't neutered by being together... what they are is probably the most stable long lasting relationship in Marvel today. THAT is inspirational; and should be applauded. Truthfully I can only care so much about what happens to Kyle/Northstar... thanks to the wet-rag Kyle. Oh well...

They can't divorce, they can't cheat, Northstar probably won't be a bitchy queen to Kyle. That's neutering. That's neutering the possibility of good drama and good stories. All that would send the message that gay marriage doesn't work. And they won't have that.

I'm not saying that we can't have good stories with them having a happy, healthy (whatever that means) relationship. I'm just saying that these characters should be allowed to make mistakes, have regrets and outright do the wrong thing without the fear of sending an ugly message.

I hope I'm wrong. I hope their relationship is written in an interesting, realistic way. Not off to a good start, though.

[Dr. Sonic]

Maybe just let Northstar's character be the sacrificial lamb for the whole affair. I wasn't all that interested in him to begin with. The positive, idealized version will be there and it opens the door for more realistic and interesting portrayals with other characters.

[Rasputin9977]

Didn't Byrne write Northstar as being promiscuous? I know he had a sugar daddy but I seen to remember there was another make character in his personal life.

[Imraith Nimphais]

That was certainly one of the more interesting articles to come out of the Northstar/Kyle gay marriage issue.
My two quid...

With human nature and it's many institutions in general...there are the positive sides and the negative.
Marriage is not rainbows and running through fields of daisies in full bloom. But neither is it deep, crevasses spewing forth sulphurous fumes.

The onus is on the writer to be sensible (and talented) enough to show/write a plausible balance based on wot his story entails.
I know I would be just as put off if either Kyle or Northstar were to do something that goes against the truth and trust of their vows as much as if they were portrayed as having found never-ending marital bliss.

On the other point brought up in the article by my "beloved-in my mind" Phil Jimenez...
While I have gay and lesbian friends who have gotten married (and divorced) I myself do not care for it. Never have, never will. I chose to live my life single which can be just as noble a decision as that of wanting to spend the rest of your life with that one very special person. And therefore should not be subject to base and unfair judgement.
Why is there this seemingly innate desire to have female superheroes in a relationship no matter how undesirable the circumstance...*ahem* Rogue? If Tony stark wants to be a playboy...that's all well and good. But the same should be applied to Carol Danvers, if she so chooses.
If writers choose to represent the variety and depth of human/social interaction on every level (for both straight and gay)...then one would hope that they do so with much care and a great deal of common sense.

[NewMutant]

Another problem is there aren't enough gay characters in comics to allow them to have multiple relationships. Daken who was promiscuous both men and women, was seen with unknowns. Where a straight male like Iron Man, Wolverine, Daredevil etc have had multiple relations with many known and popular heroes. I also didn't like that they mentioned Daken's low sales because I don't think that directly relates. They act like Northstar and Kyle was a build up, but it wasn't. Kyle was wallpaper until recently and still isn't really developed. I agree with the safety of gay marriage in comics. Marriage desexualizes it. Wiccan and Hulking for example were created as couple. The have some individual traits, but we've never known them not together. So their relationship becomes matter a fact chacterization and not tension/drama that a straight couple would get.

[Badou]

Exactly, there aren't really that many gay characters to sleep around with. I mean sure maybe if there was a gay hero who slept around with a lot of other gay heroes that might raise some ire in some readers eyes similar to how a female hero sleeps with a bunch of male heroes, though I don't think it will because female heroes will always be held to a different standard regardless unless you happen to be Mystique, but I don't think anyone would really care if a gay hero sleeps around with a bunch of nameless characters just to show him being promiscuous. That feeds into the whole gay stereotype that is pretty common in a lot media. Although now that I think about it I think there is a general push across most media to show gay characters in committed relationships maybe to move away from that stereotype.

[Gary Cody]

I'm sorry but if Wiccan and Hulkling are "inspirational" that speaks volume for how neutered gay relationships are in comics at all.

QFT. This is the couple that wasn't allowed to so much as kiss on panel for 7 years RT because the writer "didn't want to make a big deal of it". And when it finally happens, it's a glowy, shonen-ai shot taking up damn near a page on its own. So much BS.

Hulkling and Wiccan are cute. I'm glad to have them around. They're probably doing more to keep female readership at Marvel than twenty books with Strong Female Characters possibly could. But Glee pushes more boundaries than they do.

[chastmastr]

Don't we have Rictor & Shatterstar for a non-vanilla relationship? Or are they not doing the open relationship thing anymore (haven't kept up with PAD)? From what I read, Shatterstar certainly seemed to get around.

*blink* An ordinary non-kinky open relationship is non-vanilla? Never heard "vanilla" used that way before...

[chastmastr]

Although now that I think about it I think there is a general push across most media to show gay characters in committed relationships maybe to move away from that stereotype.

Which is itself creating its own stereotype of white-picket-fence monogamy... something a whole lot of us in the gay community don't want and don't need as an expected way of life. The whole "monogamy good, everything else bad" nonsense. I know (and am one of) various people with open relationships, with polyamory, the whole gamut, and we have no wish to be squeezed into yet another mold to please "society at large."

[TETO/memo1989]

Which is itself creating its own stereotype of white-picket-fence monogamy... something a whole lot of us in the gay community don't want and don't need as an expected way of life. The whole "monogamy good, everything else bad" nonsense. I know (and am one of) various people with open relationships, with polyamory, the whole gamut, and we have no wish to be squeezed into yet another mold to please "society at large."

But some do and others want something totally different. The writers just show different types of people in a group even if it is a stereotype or not. In real life, there many people that have stereotype traits and others that don’t. I would have a bigger problem if all LGBTIAQ superheroes had the same origin, traits, relationship with others, plots, and so on. I just hope they will have different types of LGBTIAQ superheroes.

[chastmastr]

Would love to see more done with Hercules' being bi- or pansexual as well (as confirmed in the funeral storyline)--that plus the fact that he's a big ol' unrepentant horndog (and a musclebear!) would certainly make him a good candidate for an alternative who already exists in the MU.

[Monty_Cristo]

i'm waiting for him to come out as Namor's kid.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0...-northstar.jpg

[-Wiccan-]

This part made me smile:

"It was Whoopi Goldberg who thought it was an amazing story and a lovely idea and she wanted to announce it on 'The View.'"

~ Marjorie Liu

I already adore her... now even more!

She did...that's so cool :)