Avengers Academy #33 *Spoilers*

[Vic Vega]

I did note that they've cut down the wallpaper a lot, and some of them even got stuck into the fight, this issue and last.

However, while I try not to be down on any character (because they could be beloved by someone and we all have our reasons) I feel any page space or ink spent on Butterball is wasted, and hopefully this is the last we'll ever see of him.

That is the way I feel about the original cast aside from Hazmat and Mettle.

I mean most of those background characters have followings(Lyra, Spider Girl, Thunderstrike). Juston and the now departed Machine Teen had miniseries in the early aughts.

You could make a case about this book being about the wrong characters.

Juston is clearly the most messed up person on that campus.

X23 is the picture of mental health compared to him.

[keeper444]

I liked the relationship that quicksilver and finesse have I wonder where are they going with it?

[DeadXMan]

the worst for me was having to watch striker compare himself to a sentinel. uh, sentinels were built to kill people that were "born this way...."

no offance
I hate the born this way.

sinice it implys that there is no free will in this matter. But it could be looked it as a genetic disorder brought on a mutation. this bring up anice retortical question.

If it turns out through genetic treatments that the we can stop down syndrom, ms, altimers and parkisens, but it will destroy the "gay" gene in process? will you do it?

[AcesX1X]

If it turns out through genetic treatments that the we can stop down syndrom, ms, altimers and parkisens, but it will destroy the "gay" gene in process? will you do it?

no, joss whedon covered all that in astonishing x-men. it's an appalling thing to even suggest, let alone delve into.

[DeadXMan]

You noticed how many mutants were shown wanting rhe cure rightt?

I bring this up bwcause it is a play on a philosophy question.
Do let utopia exist at the suffering of a few?

[KingofMadCows]

Though I support the destruction of Sentinels, I LOVED the parallels drawn between the Academy Students and the Sentinel and their respective threat levels and/or dangers to society.

Except for Stryker. His whole gay speech made me roll my eyes just a bit. And I'm gay.
But Finese and X-23 addressing being emotionless and/or created to kill was brilliant. Emma's characterization was really well done too.

That last image of Tygra and Pym walking away from the students was a little bit "Uh...yea, we're still here too." with all the wallpaper kiddos sitting around with the main cast. haha
My fiance read the issue after me and when he hit that page, he goes: "WHAT? Hey, what a minute, who are they? When are they EVER in this book? Did I miss something??"

Granted, he doesn't follow the books as closely as I do...but it was still funny, and applicable.

I don't see how the Finesse/X-23 comparisons are good. The problem with the sentinel is not just a matter of whether or not it's sentient or if it has emotions, there is also the problem of whether or not it can overcome its programming and whether it has the intelligence, judgment, and reasoning ability to properly use its weapons. If the sentinel has the same intelligence as someone like Data from Star Trek: TNG or the Terminator in T2, there wouldn't be a problem. However, the sentinel is not that intelligent even if it was sentient. And as mentioned before, children are sentient, have emotions, empathy, and compassion, but no one would give a rocket launcher to a 7 year old. The fact that they could have just put the sentinel's brain in a less dangerous body makes the whole conflict pretty contrived.

Also, the fight was kind of poorly done. They all just attacked Emma without any kind of tactics or plan. Yes, they probably knew that they had no chance against her but they could have at least tried to come up with a strategy, especially considering how they saw that Emma could be hurt if she was surprised. That made the whole "everyone yell out their objects to Emma's actions" kind of dumb. You'd think that at least X-23, who was trained to be a stealthy assassin, would have been smart enough not to telegraph her attack against Emma.

[mikekerrIII]

It attacked Emma in self-defence. As has been explained to you numerous times:

News reports showed Emma destroying Sentinels.
Emma came to Avengers Academy.
Avengers Academy has a Sentinel on campus.

The logical conclusion for the Sentinel to make in those circumstances is not, "I'm sure everything will be fine, and she's just paying a harmless social call." The logical conclusion is, "This lady's going to destroy me."

It tried to escape before she arrived. That plan failed. The next best option was to hope it could take her out quickly, before she had a chance to get her defences up, to buy time to escape with Juston. That failed. The only option left after that was to die fighting, doing what it could to protect Juston from the cosmically-powered person with a reputation for ruthlessness who had put Juston in a restraining bubble.

You can argue how much of its actions were based on its programming - that programming being to protect Juston - and how much was driven by a burgeoning sentience.

But to continue insisting that its attack on Emma was based on its "destroy mutants" directive is pure bullshit. At least until you can actually address the incredibly simple self-defence argument that has been brought up repeatedly, and which you've completely ignored every single time.

I don't pay much attention to self defense when it it is simply a machine. Machines don't have the right to self defense at all. If it was Sapient then it might have that right but there is nothing that indicates it is.

[mikekerrIII]

By that logic it would be legal and applauded if some regular human killed Magneto, who still has that dream of getting rid of humans to allow a mutant rule, no great sin in killing a terrorist?

MAgeneto is a person, not a machine

As someone pointed out, Old Yeller was beyond hope, this Sentinel hasn't killed anyone and Josh is trying to bury it's original programming under a host of directives it has to prioritise above the old directive...otherwise wit would have blasted Laura every time she came near it.

That machine has attacked and killed mutants and depending on a teenagers kludge work around when lives are at stake is idiotic.

[mikekerrIII]

Except editorial have said that's not happening, Marvel have not only consistently rejected the idea of a reboot, they've even openly mocked DC for doing it. Add already-seen solicits to that, as well as creator interviews for UA, etc, and we're left with the conclusion that you've read a bit too much into the line.

Yes, AvX will change the landscape, no it won't be caused by history re-writing and a reboot.

That's why no-one mentioned it.

They are basically killing one of thier two main lines and Avengerfying the MU, that is a reboot whether they want to admit it or not.

[Vic Vega]

They are basically killing one of thier two main lines and Avengerfying the MU, that is a reboot whether they want to admit it or not.

WATXM is kinda meant to be the main Xbook by dint of the fact that its the one with Logan in it.

Everything from Amazing Fantasy 15# is more or less still in continuity.

Its not like Havok and Rogue were never Xmen or Bucky was always the modern era Captain America.

That is reboot stuff.

Marvel Now! is doing the exact same thing that happened after Schizm and Dark Reign: The books change titles and renumber in reaction to a big event.

Its just that this time the event is MU-wide and doesn't just effect the Xbooks(House Of M, Schizm) or the Avengers books(Civil War, Seige).

[tigerkaya]

it's a stupid robot and we should be glad it's destroyed. good work emma.

Typical X-Fan I look forward to your mutants being wiped off the planet.

[Starleafgirl]

That was a wonderful issue, full of great character moments and emotion. Again Gage refuses to let his characters succumb to the contrived stupidity that seems to have infected most of this event and manages to write a compelling conflict without having anyone lose their integrity. And where other writers waste a whole story arc, he neesds just a couple of pages to put us on an emotional rollercoaster ride. I barely knew the boy and his robot before this story, but felt so invested in their struggle by the end.

Agreed. :)

I am surprised. No one has even mentioned the foreshadowing of Hank's final line of the issue. That it is going to be a whole different world after AvX. It only reinforces my suspicions that when the original 5 X-Men are brought forward in time from the period where they wore the uniforms Jean is sporting in the promo, that Marvel's entire history from that point forward is going to reshuffle to accomodate their loss from that history. And that we will be left with an end result not unlike the end result of DC's Flashpoint last year, or the episode of Star Trek TNG "Yesterday's Enterprise". They will likely even kill off Cyclops in AvX, since it will be quickly erased by his past self being brought forward in time, and that the image of Cyclops in the NOW! promo a red herring to throw us readers off. I believe that everything from ~10 years into Marvel's past (or 1963 for us) will be up for grabs, as the changes in history ripple down through the time line. A lot of Marvel's readers who have complained about DC's multiple reboots of their history are going to be pretty upset by Marvel now doing it as well.

Nah, it's just foreshadowing the upcoming Marvel NOW initiative. I don't think it's a hint at some grand conspiracy. And as much as they keep trying to de-age the original X-Men, it has to have been at least twenty or thirty years since they were teens, lol... Then again, I'm one of those people who think Emma and the original X-Men should just admit they're 40-something. Storm came later, she could be 30-something.

I'm hopefully not going to be insulting, but you really do need to take off the tinfoil hat and have a cup of tea. Perhaps a biscuit, too, though no Jammie Dodgers, you're excitable enough as is.

Agreed except I think no one should be denied Jammie Dodgers!

However, while I try not to be down on any character (because they could be beloved by someone and we all have our reasons) I feel any page space or ink spent on Butterball is wasted, and hopefully this is the last we'll ever see of him.

ROFLMAO, as one of Hollow's few fans, I try not to get down on any (non-A List) character either, but... this is EXACTLY how I felt when I saw Butterball on the last page. XD

They are basically killing one of thier two main lines and Avengerfying the MU, that is a reboot whether they want to admit it or not.

It's just a relaunch; it's not like they're rebooting the entire continuity. The stories that came before are still "real" (if, apart from AvX, irrelevant). I like it better than what DC did, though I shouldn't be surprised DC would do something like that considering all the times characters like Supergirl and Catwoman have been relaunched.

[strathcona]

I really liked that Gage bothered to explain the possible plotholes. Like Emma not noticing Juston was inside, or Quicksilver being able to replace it.

Yes... that is why Gage is one of the best writers Marvel has right now. He makes sure that he looks at his stories from all angles.

Okay, seriously, what's with rebuilding the Sentinel to look exactly the damn same? The entire team clearly learned absolutely nothing from this whole ordeal.

Yeah, I thought the same thing. At least paint it a different colour.

[Tiamatican]

I don't pay much attention to self defense when it it is simply a machine. Machines don't have the right to self defense at all. If it was Sapient then it might have that right but there is nothing that indicates it is.

And it showed sapience when it overrode its core directive in order to continue defending Juston.

In fact, the whole story was based on the question of whether the Sentinel possessed some degree of sapience. Emma didn't even care to find out. The others felt it deserved a chance for its sapience to be determined. For my part, I side with them. If it's sapient, then Emma's committing flat-out murder, whether she melts it down or simply wipes its memory. So I'm inclined to err on the side of moral caution, and try to find a way to determine its potential sapience before destroying it.

[stewart48]

the worst for me was having to watch striker compare himself to a sentinel. uh, sentinels were built to kill people that were "born this way...."

I never liked the comparison to anything superpower related, maybe its my age, but whenever mutants issues, which has included accidentally killing people, in comics is compared to gay issues it makes me cringe. Mainly because I think back to the 80s when there was the prejudice that you could get AIDS being around someone who is gay. Probably too politically correct I know, but I had a student that still thought that.

Also that means technically the sentinel was Born that way, and the end of the issue clearly shows the sentinel has an evolving cognitive intelligence. In real life its stupid in the comic book world... par for the course.