Is Diana a Christian?

[adkal]

The amazons never personally pray to male . They mainly pray to female gods. Atermis was suppose to go to heaven but find herself but find herself in hell. They never pray to men gods. In all they pray to female gods. They have an aphorite temple. They aren't see praying to male gods . In fact Hippotyla pray to Hera to save the life of Diana

They have an Oracle, and that ties, pretty much directly, to Apollo...

[comixgrl99]

The thing is that the Greek Gods have never been described as neither omnipotent or universally benevolent towards their followers in the same way Jehova is. Added to what I said before is that despite doing those things of respect around them, if you have the power and guts for it, you should be ready to brawl with them as well because they are not always reasonable.

I agree. Your assessment is supported by a lot of Greek myths as well. The Gods were often symbols of Greek culture and human nature. It was not unheard of to challenge them, defy them, or openly laugh at them. Daphne, for example, turned herself into a tree rather than become the paramour to Apollo. In the Iliad, the Achaeans destroyed an Apollo temple and ravished his priestesses, but other Gods like Poseidon, Hera, and Athena were patrons of the Achaeans.

The Gods were mainly worshipped for an assurance into the afterlife, the belief that they actively controlled nature and all aspects of society, and for wealth, luck, the bestowal of gifts, etc. They were also patrons of specific life-styles as well, for example the Cult of Artemis and the Cult of Dionysus, which were alternative lifestyles to Greek society. We have to remember that Greek religion was entrenched into the very core of who they were as a people. Diana probably feels a sense of identity with them because her way of life is so entrenched within Greek myth. In fact, a lot of our own concepts and beliefs are directly descended from Greek culture, society, and myth.

[comixgrl99]

double post

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

True that, you went way out on the limb there; although it may be your experience (which I'm understanding more and more why every time I see you post about Judeo-Christianity; if you're familiar with the Christian faith, than you'll find out that not receiving a response to your prays means that you need to do some soul searching; once you have made corrections on that level, you might find that you're prays will have a cause and effect) and a lot of peoples' experience, when I pray to God, in the name of Jesus, I actually have a cause and effect; and there are many witness accounts of a cause and effect by people to have prayed to God in the name of Jesus;

And there are many more who called out to God in the name of Jesus and got nothing, even to the point of death. Why is their experience different from yours?
Either way, my point was praying to God is not the same as interacting with God. You interact with friends and family, not God.

and I'll say that God and I have a very fascinating background that did involve my interaction with God, but a long, long time ago, a time before the creation which you know

I'm not even gonna pretend to know what you're talking about here. But, please continue.

I'll just say the written accounts of Enoch is very fascinating and kind of familiar to me in such a way that it shocks me.

How so? And why would you think the written accounts of Enoch are historical?

I think you're referring to a Grant JLA story and seeing just parts of it completely changed my interest and reading anything more from Grant,

Why? Grant derived his story from angelic mythology. It's no less legit than what you'd find in the book of Enoch.

having Grant deal with Christianity obviously shows someone who very likely has disparaging opinions of Christianity

I think that has more to do with Christ's fanbase than Christ, himself.

Yeah, I suppose there are some inaccurate differences in the DCU, but differences from reality that are very critical.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say "reality".

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

Well, clearly your prior comments implied that Diana was not interacting with Judeo-Christian beings because she had no evidence that they existed; DC needs to correct their depictions of Judeo-Christian beings; when God reveals Himself, just like anyone, it's up to Diana to decide to convert or refuse to convert.

Why should she entertain such an option? She just wouldn't care. She's a product of her gods; a member of their family. She knows the Spectre and who he represents and that has no bearing on her beliefs. Even her afterlife is different from that Christians. She ascended to godhood and immortality. She's walked in and out of Hell. She didn't go to Heaven and start singing the praises of a god she doesn't worship. That doesn't make any sense.

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

Clearly, Diana doesn't revere her gods or she wouldn't be fighting them, which, by implications, means they aren't even supernatural for her, yet along gods for her;

Well, if God or Jesus or Mary or angels came down and started attacking my friends and family, I'd fight them, too. Granted, I'd probably lose, but I'd still fight.

[T.M. Anthony]

That’s already been done. In the story as I remember GOD toke away the powers of all the JLA members and Diana became a Catholic and spent a lot of time in prayer, kinda like a nun in this Else World story. Most fans did not like it.

I said if done right. Act of God was the writers way of giving batman a b-job while making a mockery of the rest of the DCU.

The major problem for Dianas switch in that story was that she was still a person who was born by the powers of greek gods and still held belief in them for years. Now, if she was a person who's birth was without connection to them in any manner and she converts upon discovering this belief system, thats fine. Thats the else worlds tale that would make sense. But as a being who's sole existence is due to these gods (pre and post DCnU albeit in different fashions), it'd just be bullocks for her to switch beliefs in any story.

In order to make it work she'd have to have her whole origin changed dramatically.

[Outside_85]

I agree. Your assessment is supported by a lot of Greek myths as well. The Gods were often symbols of Greek culture and human nature. It was not unheard of to challenge them, defy them, or openly laugh at them. Daphne, for example, turned herself into a tree rather than become the paramour to Apollo. In the Iliad, the Achaeans destroyed an Apollo temple and ravished his priestesses, but other Gods like Poseidon, Hera, and Athena were patrons of the Achaeans.

The Gods were mainly worshipped for an assurance into the afterlife, the belief that they actively controlled nature and all aspects of society, and for wealth, luck, the bestowal of gifts, etc. They were also patrons of specific life-styles as well, for example the Cult of Artemis and the Cult of Dionysus, which were alternative lifestyles to Greek society. We have to remember that Greek religion was entrenched into the very core of who they were as a people. Diana probably feels a sense of identity with them because her way of life is so entrenched within Greek myth. In fact, a lot of our own concepts and beliefs are directly descended from Greek culture, society, and myth.

Would say that each deity was someone you prayed to depending on if you needed their blessings for whatever you were about to do.
Like hunters would very likely pray to Artemis for a good hunt.
Farmers to Demeter for a bountiful harvest.
Seafarers pray to Poseidon for a safe journey across the waves.
Athena, Ares and maybe Herakles would get some attention when a battle was about to be fought and so on.

[vaffrey]

You're dissing Aegisbearer's faith there, man.

Dissed? Not at all. I just find that the tropes and characters of Judaeo-Christian mythology are dull stuff compared to the tropes and characters of Greek mythology, so to my mind they would only detract from the WW book. It's a matter of taste, that's all, and I was just saying that, say, an appearance from Elijah in the WW book would hold my interest less than an appearance from Aphrodite.

I'm not passing any judgments on anyone's decision to invest time in reverence, contemplation, what-have-you in any religious practice or myth system. I'm just commenting on aesthetics, ultimately.

[Don-Jack]

[ShaunN]

As others have indicated, I think it is important to recognize that the Greek gods were meant to be abominable. The human relationship to the supernatural/gods in Greek culture was very different than what Christians believe of their relationship to their God. To the Greeks, the gods embodied all the emotions and vices of humans, as well as the capriciousness of nature. They were not inherently good or evil. They were worshipped as much to be assuaged as anything else and they did not necessarily inspire love or devotion.

The depiction of the gods in WW and Diana's relationship to them has changed a lot over the years. In Gail Simone's run, Zeus murders the Hawaiian god Kane in order to break Kane's patronage of Diana; when Diana learns of this, she slugs him. Similarly, in Perez's run, Zeus attempts to rape Diana. These acts and attempted acts are understood as evil, even when committed by the King of the Gods, and they are to be opposed.

Whether or not the gods are "gods" is an open question. To most of us, they are no more than powerful superbeings. In both Marvel and DC, however, the gods seem to be connected to some deeper, divine source. In Marvel, Thor seems to be a manifestation of mystical power that is linked to some higher divine force.

[Fate's Faith]

My feelings are that Diana could convert because Christianity is not a religion built on knowing God is real but in the belief that God is real. Diana has met her gods. There's no faith at work there. Different religions have different things that define them and to me Christianity has always been defined by faith. Faith that God is real, faith that Jesus who we never met died for our sins and faith we will be rewarded for a life lived in faith. So nothing about Christianity keeps Diana from becoming a follower. Probably not going to happen.

[dshipp17]

And there are many more who called out to God in the name of Jesus and got nothing, even to the point of death. Why is their experience different from yours?
Either way, my point was praying to God is not the same as interacting with God. You interact with friends and family, not God.



I'm not even gonna pretend to know what you're talking about here. But, please continue.



How so? And why would you think the written accounts of Enoch are historical?



Why? Grant derived his story from angelic mythology. It's no less legit than what you'd find in the book of Enoch.



I think that has more to do with Christ's fanbase than Christ, himself.



I'm not sure what you mean when you say "reality".

And why are the people who's prays do have a cause and effect unimportant? I've already covered your expression by saying that some peoples' prayers have a cause and effect while other peoples' prayers do not; many of those peoples' prayers are not answered because they need to do some sole searching; and of course that would be true even when those people pray until the death.

No, you clearly said that people pray at God to insinuate something, likely that prayers to God are a discretionary effort that's a waste of time because you are one of those whose prayers God probably does not acknowledge; my point was that my experience and a lot of other peoples' experiences are different, and different for a good reason.

My interaction with God involved some overlap with things which Enoch experienced while he was in Heaven and heading to commune with God (e.g. I knew the stipulation that no one can look upon God without facing death; that's applied to people); the rest of my story, however, is best left unstated, except to say that I'm here again because God is a merciful God (while Enoch was a person, I was not at that time; nor was I apart of the Angelic race; God was ancient even than, where it was perhaps trillions of years ago); I found the story of Enoch to be fascinating because it resembled something that I experienced after interacting with God and I was surprised that something in writing corroborated what I remembered, although, even without having read Enoch, I know my situation was real and that I should have fear about revealing too much of my experiences, lest I face real consequences; God is a merciful God indeed.

Grant material is much less legit than the material written about Enoch for the obvious fact that Grant is writing a comic book for entertainment value while the author of Enoch was writing what he believed to be historical record; as such, that goes without saying; I know you're being sarcastic, because, if not, based on how I've tried to explain stuff to you, there may not be much hope for you if you can't discern someone trying to write historical record from someone writing something for entertainment value to go with the flow of sales trends; and it's quite obvious why anyone would think Enoch has historical value and I believe you know those obvious reasons; that you disagree is a separate discussion, but state that you disagree rather than asking a patronizing question; I assure you, you cannot hurt my feelings or make my faith waver in a discussion about Judeo-Christian theology because God and I have such a special relationship with one another; I just see you and like people as running your hourglass and hope and pray that you come to your senses before it's too late, while hoping that something that I write can lead to such revelation; you've probably heard the saying that Heaven rejoices when just one soul is saved, so, think of my motives that way.

[dshipp17]

My feelings are that Diana could convert because Christianity is not a religion built on knowing God is real but in the belief that God is real. Diana has met her gods. There's no faith at work there. Different religions have different things that define them and to me Christianity has always been defined by faith. Faith that God is real, faith that Jesus who we never met died for our sins and faith we will be rewarded for a life lived in faith. So nothing about Christianity keeps Diana from becoming a follower. Probably not going to happen.

Amen and well said; blessed are those who believe in Jesus without seeing Him, for theirs are the Kingdom of Heaven.

However, I think people are attributing to Diana that her following religion is contingent upon interaction; again, it's just a depiction of Diana which DC has chosen to make about her.

[Gaelforce]

And that's a lock.

I have repeatedly requested that people not discuss their own personal faith(s), but since that is continuing without any reference to Diana, then this discussion is at an end.