Are you worred for Vetigo part 2

[fin5]

With 11 book out,3 of with is mini and 2 is ending
It makes me wonder whats going to happen to Vetigio
Some of it is incorperated into the new 52 with Swamp thing and another hellblazer.Do you think this could be the beginning of the end for Vertigo

[Mr. Holmes]

Yeah I'm really underwhelmed by that Vertigo "relaunch" in April. I mean, Fairiest, Saucer County, New Deadwardians, etc. were solid, but doesn't compare to what Image is putting out. I'm still catching up with Hellblazer, but I'm sure Milligan is doing some good stuff there.

Maybe DC should just suck it up and do a fully creator-owned model like Image. I mean, what's the point otherwise? They moved the work for hire house properties over to the DC Dark line.

[Desaad]

Their contracts have gone in the other direction, only gotten more restrictive. They just don't have the set up to attract top flight talent, at this point. Why give up TV/movie rights when you can take your project to Darkhorse or Image and retain EVERYTHING? Okay, the page rate, but supposedly they cut down on that, and they've cut down on the number of books they're willing to do.

It's tough business. I question whether they're going to Image and trying to recruit some of the up and comers there, luring them with a page rate. I'm sure for Jason Aaron, when he started Scalped, that was a huge boon. But now? Probably not needed -- he's built his name to the point that he can survive on an Image or Icon imprint. Ditto Hickman and Brubaker and Morrison, even Snyder and Lemire. I'd be very surprised to find that Lemire's next book is going to be published through Vertigo, for instance.

I'm worried, and it will be sad, but I think Vertigo's days are probably numbered, and it's really not that big a deal as long as its due to competition from stuff like Image and Dark Horse.

[Mr. Holmes]

It just seems really contradictory and counterintuitive if Vertigo is supposed to be about creators bringing on new concepts/characters, but don't have the rights.

I think Lemire is DC exclusive - how long would that last?

[Pixie_Solanas]

Vertigo's restrictive contract terms re: rights have largely squeezed the creator-owned talent over to Image.

As soon as they changed the game, you could have sounded the deathknell for the imprint. I got the first issue of Punk Rock Jesus and it's been years since I saw something this fresh and good from the line - maybe since Morrison's "Joe the Barbarian".

[Desaad]

He's exclusive for company owned stuff, not for his creator owned. Everyone gets to do creator owned where they want, although there was a bleedingcool rumor that said new contracts were being drawn up to limit that.

And as a company Warner Bros is about creating and controling IP, right? More money is going to come in through movies and tv shows and action figures then it will through the comics, so they'll want to have control over all that. Unfortunately that means a work is less likely to be translated as well, because it has go to through Warner Bros, can't be its own thing.

It makes total sense to me that contracts got more restrictive as soon as Warner Bros took a more active hand in DC Comics, turning it into DC Entertainment.

Marvel's Icon is more imagey, but you have to be doing 2 mainstream books them, and be one of their most acclaimed and high earning writers to get the right to put something in Icon (an architect).

[Mr. Holmes]

It makes total sense to me that contracts got more restrictive as soon as Warner Bros took a more active hand in DC Comics, turning it into DC Entertainment.

Ooh yeah this makes the situation clear now. Still I wonder if WB will ever realize how this will bite them back.

Marvel's Icon is more imagey, but you have to be doing 2 mainstream books them, and be one of their most acclaimed and high earning writers to get the right to put something in Icon (an architect).

Don't creators have to also pay for publishing or something like that?

[Enormouse]

I'm not worried for Vertigo. While the contract restrictions are pretty jarring, I'm optimistic that the imprint will evolve. That Gaiman is returning under a newly negotiated contract is evidence of the beginning of this process. Image is grabbing all kinds of buzz with their creative teams, and it's likely DC and Vertigo will take notice. I find it hard to believe Vertigo will shut down.

[LoneNecromancer]

I think Vertigo should just make it fully negotiable as to whether the creator retains whichever rights, whether they want a page rate/salary or do they just want the money from how well the comic sells, all of which affects how much of a cut they take. Offer the best of both worlds, to appeal to both new guys starting out and to superstar creators. As Mr Holmes points out, the DC Dark Line is almost starting to make Vertigo seem redundant with the way things currently are.

That said, Enormouse also makes a decent point that Gaiman's return could signal the start of an upward trend, but the guys upstairs have to notice that Image is grabbing a lot of big creators at the moment and think they want a slice of that. Though honestly, if Morrison writing a new series at Image and Vaughan making Saga at Image instead of Vertigo didn't badly shake them, I'm not sure what else will.

[diablo7]

Ooh yeah this makes the situation clear now. Still I wonder if WB will ever realize how this will bite them back.



Don't creators have to also pay for publishing or something like that?

icon is set up like image where creators get paid on the back end, only difference is icon is only for a select few creators where image is open to anyone.

[nightwing1982]

I'm not worried for Vertigo. While the contract restrictions are pretty jarring, I'm optimistic that the imprint will evolve. That Gaiman is returning under a newly negotiated contract is evidence of the beginning of this process. Image is grabbing all kinds of buzz with their creative teams, and it's likely DC and Vertigo will take notice. I find it hard to believe Vertigo will shut down.

I'm with you on that. Vertigo does have a good rep for having editors just let the creative do their thing. The company as a whole already knows that a lot of talent use to be there are now some where else. I do miss the early days where Vertigo just popping out series or mini series. Hell, I loved seeing new fresh talent with new original ideas.

[Darrell D.]

Don't creators have to also pay for publishing or something like that?

I think Brubaker stated that he and Sean Phillips had to pay for a letterer, colorist, etc. Plus, basically pay for promotion of the book. But, they own it 100%.

[Darrell D.]

I'm not worried for Vertigo. While the contract restrictions are pretty jarring, I'm optimistic that the imprint will evolve. That Gaiman is returning under a newly negotiated contract is evidence of the beginning of this process. Image is grabbing all kinds of buzz with their creative teams, and it's likely DC and Vertigo will take notice. I find it hard to believe Vertigo will shut down.

It just means that DC finally agreed to pay Gaiman what he is worth.
He's still doing Work for Hire for the imprint, with Sandman being wholly owned by DC.

[Darrell D.]

I think Vertigo should just make it fully negotiable as to whether the creator retains whichever rights, whether they want a page rate/salary or do they just want the money from how well the comic sells, all of which affects how much of a cut they take. Offer the best of both worlds, to appeal to both new guys starting out and to superstar creators. As Mr Holmes points out, the DC Dark Line is almost starting to make Vertigo seem redundant with the way things currently are.

That said, Enormouse also makes a decent point that Gaiman's return could signal the start of an upward trend, but the guys upstairs have to notice that Image is grabbing a lot of big creators at the moment and think they want a slice of that. Though honestly, if Morrison writing a new series at Image and Vaughan making Saga at Image instead of Vertigo didn't badly shake them, I'm not sure what else will.

Yeah, Vaughn and Morrison (and Ellis and Ennis) not doing ANY new work for Vertigo pretty much says it all.
When Scalped is finished, I can imagine that Aaron will take his next creator-owned project somewhere else.

[FanboyStranger]

It just seems really contradictory and counterintuitive if Vertigo is supposed to be about creators bringing on new concepts/characters, but don't have the rights.

I think Lemire is DC exclusive - how long would that last?

He mentioned in a CBR interview posted yesterday that he has a new creator-owned series with Vertigo that will start around the end of the year.