Batwoman #11 Preview/Discussion

[Brave Sir Robbin]

at least on an emotional level has seemingly abandoned her first initial sidekick to almost dying in the hospital (Batman would NEVER have done that with any of his harem of Robins),

Now come on. This isn't Penn State. Batman is a tough adopted father and sometimes distant when the young men need him but, other than jokes we used to make about the TV show, I never saw Batman in the Classic era Greek mode of helping to raise males. Although I guess he has a little hard ass Spartan in him. Besides, if anything happened, I assume that Red Hood would have taken his ass out.

[shingi70]

Was a quick issue and everything seems to be building up into the next arc. Bet Wonder Woman is going to be investigating the dead Amazons.

Really hope after this next arc we get another arc like Go.

And I'm betting while Kate and Diana are teaming up Jaccob is going to be training bette.

[hunter_peterson]

I really liked this issue. It was a fairly nice end to the arc, given that the stated purpose of it was to loose these new villains into Batwoman's world and build up her rogues gallery. Looking forward to seeing Bloody Mary by herself.

Plotwise, I loved that Bette FINALLY woke up. Can't wait to see her get back in action. And I'm fairly certain that the Mothernis Whisper A'Daire, which is nice, though I could be wrong there. Oh, and Maro/Sune turning into a fox at the end makes her/him make sense- pretty sure s/he's based on the Japanese legend of the Kitsune, the shapeshifting demon fox that entraps men through seduction. Apparently it works on lesbians too. Kind of sets Maro/Sune as a #^#*% up trickster Catwoman riff.

I love How Batwoman's rogues are developing in general, actually. They're pretty analogous to Batman's, but in a good way. Alice is a Joker/Mad Hatter mash with evil twin thrown in, the Religion of Crime is a were folk League of Assassins, Weeping Woman is Scarecrow crossed with Poison Ivy's elemental manipulation, the Hook is a horror spin on the Ventriloquist and Killer Croc is Killer Croc, but more so. The one we don't know a lot about is Bloody Mary, but that's next issue. And each one has a different dominant color to visually contrast with the red and black of Batwoman. So cool!

[thewarning]

I'm kind of surprised that people are so accepting of the saccharine ending of the Bette story. And you're already expecting her to "get back out there?"

[Filip]

Bette was the Sleeping Beauty in this story, so it seemed fitting to me that she would wake up only after accepting that she's a plebe. That was the only bright spot in this issue.

I must say that it would've been terrific if Whisper was the Mother, but I highly doubt it since I've been gravely let down by this conclusion. Religion of Crime escapists branching out and forming their own cults and twisted faiths certainly sounds appealing.

[OberonOsiris]

Bette was the Sleeping Beauty in this story, so it seemed fitting to me that she would wake up only after accepting that she's a plebe. That was the only bright spot in this issue.

I must say that it would've been terrific if Whisper was the Mother, but I highly doubt it since I've been gravely let down by this conclusion. Religion of Crime escapists branching out and forming their own cults and twisted faiths certainly sounds appealing.

Oberon: Haven't read it yet, though I like what I'm hearing, but I hate this notion: "accepting that she is a plebe" (Bette).

While I look forward to Bette becoming active again and the opportunity to have training from Jake, I am distressed that we apparantly will only see her progress going *forward*.

Are we never to see anymore of a backstory or history?

I find it unappealing that almost no one here, let alone the "Flamebird" fans have not wondered:

Who are Bette's parents or other family that were not informed or caring enough to attend to her plight?

No one from any other walk of her life? Teen Titans or however that will be retconned?

The idea that she is so much less than Kate, yet somehow worthy of this training seems to bug me too; it is all too certain that Bette was the first Batwoman's partner, Bat-girl, so

She's been in the game almost as long as Batman himself, since Kathy Kane is in continuity and those adventures would have happened very early in his actual career.

*on a brighter note, I look forward to Kate's appearance in Batgirl and hope that this means that other cross-overs are possible. Wouldn't it be funny if Nightwing or Batman or someone come across Jake training Bette - in one of their books, of course. (part of me wonders if they would mistake her for Spoiler/Batgirl/Steph)

"I was dead, but I got better" could take on a whole new meaning.

[Brack360]

Are we never to see anymore of a backstory or history?

I find it unappealing that almost no one here, let alone the "Flamebird" fans have not wondered:

Who are Bette's parents or other family that were not informed or caring enough to attend to her plight?

Jacob made an offhand remark in this issue that Bette's mother was talking to a doctor about organ donation. But that's the only reference we've seen.

I was hoping we'd some answer to reconcile the two big questions left open by Morrison in the "Kane Affair" issue: 1) was the original Batgirl (Betty Kane) the same as the modern Flamebird (Bette Kane)? and 2) how is the family headed by Jacob Kane related to Martha Wayne and Kathy Kane? Is Jacob the brother of Martha or are they more distant? However, since the new 52, I really feel that it's DC's view that Barbara was the only Batgirl, which makes the "Kane Affair" story non-canon and unlikely to be elaborated upon.

[OberonOsiris]

However, since the new 52, I really feel that it's DC's view that Barbara was the only Batgirl, which makes the "Kane Affair" story non-canon and unlikely to be elaborated upon.

So thats it then, just don't mention a story (pre new52) and it doesn't exist, except I thought that was different if Morrison authored said stories?

At any rate, I myself believe that Jake and Bette's father, are brothers and also cousins to Martha, Bruce's mother, which would actually make Bruce a 2nd cousin to Kate and Bette.
Likewise, they would be cousins to Martha's brother Nathaniel who was married to the first Batwoman.
I'm sure it is the intention of current continuity that this relationship, all of them, must be correct.
Therefore, it is most likely that Bette = Betty, Flamebird, was the first Batwoman's partner, as "Bat-girl".
I actually think there is quite a bit of story there, that would make an interesting arc or two in Batwoman, or one-shot, Secret Origin-type or limited series. A serious cross-over with other Bat-titles, etc. etc.

[Godlike13]

Bette = Betty the same way Kate = Kathy

[OberonOsiris]

Bette = Betty the same way Kate = Kathy

I'm not sure what you mean. Kate does not equal Kathy in the same way. Kate and Kathy are both "Batwoman" but are not the same person; Kathy would be the aunt to Kate and Bette.

Bette is Betty, the same person, in all but actual 'reveal'. We only need someone to say that definitively one way or the other.

[maxpower00044]

Great final chapter! I almost forgot what it's like to have an (almost) linear Batwoman story. McCarthy's art was great these last few issues, and I hope he can be the permanent fill in for this book. I'm probably going to give this arc a reread in the near future to soak more of it in. Bring on BW and WW with some JHWIII art!

[Godlike13]

I'm not sure what you mean. Kate does not equal Kathy in the same way. Kate and Kathy are both "Batwoman" but are not the same person; Kathy would be the aunt to Kate and Bette.

Bette is Betty, the same person, in all but actual 'reveal'. We only need someone to say that definitively one way or the other.

They're not really the same person though, no more than Kate and Kathy are.

[coveredinbees]

so happy she's alive. tears of joy man
I'm so excited for Jake and Bette. He's been the best part of this story. I can't wait for them to shut down Batwoman and rename the book Flamebird.

Speaking of, I love the anti-kill stance, or leftover fondness Sune, but come on Kate! Bruce catches the bad guy after saving his life! I love that Chase kept swimming when Croc grabbed Kate.
I'm glad Kate's going for a deeper relationship with Maggie. I want more Chase action in the next arc and I want to learn more about the Lizard Queen. I'm convinced this book is going to soar even higher now.

[net06]

As I understand it they're going back to the original artist after this issue. I hope so, if they do I will start buying this book again.

[OberonOsiris]

They're not really the same person though, no more than Kate and Kathy are.

Somebody like Ronnie can jump in here, but I'm certain that while they have not definitively shown us that the once and former Bat-girl, from 1961 or so, is absolutely Flamebird, in both post-Crisis *and* current "new52" continuity, the body of evidence coming from Grant Morrison's exploration of this part of Batman's past/continuity does make it appear they are the same person.

To wit: in previous 'canon', Betty Kane was considered/stated, to be the niece of the original Batwoman, Kathy Kane.
Currently, per Grant Morrison Kathy Kane, the original Batwoman did/has existed.
Kathy was a 'Kane' by marriage alone, to the (older?) brother of Bruce's mother, Martha Kane. Nathaniel.
I believe earlier in the Detective Batwoman run, Bette/Flamebird was established as Kate's cousin, Jake's niece.
Although we lack an actual continuity bridge to show when and how Betty/Bat-girl 'became' Bette/Flamebird, it seems to be certain.