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  1. #16
    The Dark Knight Returns DonC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    What did Cameron Stewart actually do before his work on The Invisibles?

    Looks like a couple issues of Superman Adventures. Stewart may have been new, but Finch, Daniel and Burnham all had long careers before they teamed with Morrison. Hell, Daniel has been at it almost twenty years.
    Free your soul and let it fly....

  2. #17
    Metal Face Destro777's Avatar
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    I'll admit it. The whole reason I've even been in comic shops the past 8 years or so has been for Morrison's books. Sure i enjoy a helluva lot of other comic stuff - but its all just icing on the cake. Now this isnt necessarily a bad thing, but Morrison basically ruins any comic book for me after he leaves it, because there is no way anyone is going to follow it up and top it. See: X-Men, [All-star] Superman, and now Batman. Xmen has been in shambles ever since he left with nothing coming even remotely close, and no one is topping this Batman run - I will be re-reading it for years.
    Marvel: Hickman's Avengers books
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    Other: Hellboy, Fables, Spawn, Savage Dragon, Prophet

  3. #18
    Senior Member Vidocq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    The most common criticism is that it's self-indulgent, pretentious crap that you need three doctorates for to undertand.

    I don't really agree with that though.
    That's a strawman argument. I can definitly see why people would see his books as complicated for Complexity sake or pretentious. Not that I agree with that, personally. But you can make that argument without sounding illiterate.
    ...And does Mr. Goddanm Batman says so much as ''Thanks''? OF COURSE not. That'd hardly be GRIM AND GRITTY, would it?

    The jerk...

    -DKU's Jim Gordon.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    The most common criticism is that it's self-indulgent, pretentious crap that you need three doctorates for to undertand.
    As far as his work on Batman and X-Men are concerned, I pretty much agree with these arguments. IMHO, as far as superhero titles are concerned, he's much more suited to books like Superman and the JLA. His writing style is so fits those crazy, over-the-top, cosmic adventures that it's pretty much the perfect combination of writer and character that imagining one without the other is almost unfathomable. As far as his work on books like Batman and X-Men, I feel as if he just tries too hard to incorporate his pov into the characters and the stories that it becomes more of a Grant Morrison adventure than a Batman one, taking me completely out of the story.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by edge007 View Post
    As far as his work on Batman and X-Men are concerned, I pretty much agree with these arguments. IMHO, as far as superhero titles are concerned, he's much more suited to books like Superman and the JLA. His writing style is so fits those crazy, over-the-top, cosmic adventures that it's pretty much the perfect combination of writer and character that imagining one without the other is almost unfathomable. As far as his work on books like Batman and X-Men, I feel as if he just tries too hard to incorporate his pov into the characters and the stories that it becomes more of a Grant Morrison adventure than a Batman one, taking me completely out of the story.
    Examples?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer View Post
    Examples?
    RIP, Batman, Inc., Bat-Cow, and Jason claiming Bruce had him dye his hair just to name a few. Although, now that I think of it, maybe 'pov' was the wrong coice of words. 'Personality,' maybe?

    That said, a writer injecting his or her own personality into a book isn't necessarily a bad thing. You just have to find the combination of the two that is seamless, like I mentioned earlier how his runs on Superman and JLA have been.

    Just for clarification's sake, though, I completely understand that these are simply opinions, no better or worse than anyone else's on these boards, pro or con and I have absolutely no problem with those that like his Bat-stuff. Just thought I'd answer a question that was put out there.
    Last edited by edge007; 07-16-2012 at 07:25 PM.

  7. #22
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edge007 View Post
    Jason claiming Bruce had him dye his hair...
    Ehm... That happened way before Morrison...

    And just naming the titles of two long stories doesn't count as giving examples.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Ehm... That happened way before Morrison...
    Actually, pre-Crisis, Jason made the decision, himself (I just rediscovered this when going through an old box of comics at my mom's house). It was Morrison's idea to imply that Bruce had some sort of weird sexual fetish for it.

    And just naming the titles of two long stories doesn't count as giving examples.
    Okay, well, Batman, Inc. for example is not a concept that I could ever imagine Bruce going forward with before Morrison. As for RIP, it just seemed to go along with his fondness for pre-Crisis stories, bringing everything in from Bat-Mite to that crazy colorful costume and that Zur-En-Arrh concept.

  9. #24

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    I worship the man.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by edge007 View Post
    \Okay, well, Batman, Inc. for example is not a concept that I could ever imagine Bruce going forward with before Morrison.
    It's a concept the bronze age Batman would come up with, especially since it's pre-cursor is the International Club of Heroes and it's a counter to the League of Assasins.

    As for RIP, it just seemed to go along with his fondness for pre-Crisis stories, bringing everything in from Bat-Mite to that crazy colorful costume and that Zur-En-Arrh concept.
    It's his fondness for all the eras of Batman, the Silver Age ones are just the ones that stick out because he's the only one to try to incorporate it.

  11. #26
    A twisted soul InfamousBG's Avatar
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    Grant Morrison is a wonderful Bat writer. He appreciates the character very well.

  12. #27
    Senior Member tylenoljones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueLily View Post
    I worship the man.
    While I personally think that's a bit much, you could certainly worship worse....

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    It's a concept the bronze age Batman would come up with, especially since it's pre-cursor is the International Club of Heroes and it's a counter to the League of Assasins.


    It's his fondness for all the eras of Batman, the Silver Age ones are just the ones that stick out because he's the only one to try to incorporate it.
    Which is exactly my point. The guy loves his pre-Crisis stories. Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you. As far as superhero titles are concerned, they seem to be his trademark, which is why (like I've said) it kinda takes me out of the story because it seems as if I'm reading more of a Grant Morrison story than a Batman story, when it really should be seamless.

    I'm honestly I'm quite fond of many a pre-Crisis story, myself. I just prefer those concepts in the age they were originally introduced in. At least as far as Batman is concerned. Like I've already mentioned, I find those sensibilities far more beneficial for books like Superman and the JLA than Batman and X-Men.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by edge007 View Post
    Which is exactly my point. The guy loves his pre-Crisis stories. Not necessarily a bad thing, mind you. As far as superhero titles are concerned, they seem to be his trademark, which is why (like I've said) it kinda takes me out of the story because it seems as if I'm reading more of a Grant Morrison story than a Batman story, when it really should be seamless.
    I think you're missing the point of what he does. The use of pre-Crisis elements may be your take away of his work, but Morrison's run isn't more about pre-Crisis elements than post-Crisis elements. Maybe it sticks out more because the post-Crisis elements are more recent in Batman stories and are thus less noticeable. It's about all the eras and trying to bring them all together so that all 70 years of Batman publication comes together to establish one definitive Batman. The Joe Chill in Hell story in Black Glove modernizes the very original Finger/Kane stories for his early days, it modernizes the Silver Age tone into a pop art "David Lynch trippy" style in Batman and Robin as well as the references to the SA stories reprinted in Black Casebook, with a degree of creepiness. The current Batman Inc is intended to be a sequel to the original O'Neil/Adams Ra's Al Ghul tales. And then you also have allusions to 90s stories with Knightfall and Dark Knight, Dark City, etc. It's not about pre-Crisis anymore than it is about all the eras of Batman.


    Quote Originally Posted by edge007 View Post
    Laughing? Seriously? That was just my honest impression and if you were on the DC Messageboards before they closed down a year ago you'd see that I wasn't the only one.
    Citing people from the DC boards doesn't help giving your case ethos.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    I think you're missing the point of what he does. The use of pre-Crisis elements may be your take away of his work, but Morrison's run isn't more about pre-Crisis elements than post-Crisis elements. Maybe it sticks out more because the post-Crisis elements are more recent in Batman stories and are thus less noticeable. It's about all the eras and trying to bring them all together so that all 70 years of Batman publication comes together to establish one definitive Batman. The Joe Chill in Hell story in Black Glove modernizes the very original Finger/Kane stories for his early days, it modernizes the Silver Age tone into a pop art "David Lynch trippy" style in Batman and Robin as well as the references to the SA stories reprinted in Black Casebook, with a degree of creepiness. The current Batman Inc is intended to be a sequel to the original O'Neil/Adams Ra's Al Ghul tales. And then you also have allusions to 90s stories with Knightfall and Dark Knight, Dark City, etc. It's not about pre-Crisis anymore than it is about all the eras of Batman.
    I've been reading Morrison since Arkham Asylum (bought it the day it came out) and I'm pretty familiar with what he does. I just tend to enjoy my Batman stories in a way different than how he chooses to present them. I sincerely enjoy each era of Batman, but I just don't particularly care for the way Morrison puts them in a blender (not a dig).

    Honestly, it's just not my bag. If it's your's that's fine, but I have no interest in being talked into it anymore than I'm sure you do into being talked out of it (which I'm not trying to do, btw. Just presenting a different pov).

    Citing people from the DC boards doesn't help giving your case ethos.
    Not particularly trying to state one. Just putting forth how I and a few others out there may have interpreted it after someone earlier asked for Morrison criticisms. You don't interpret it that way? That's fine, I have absolutely no problem with that.

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