Did Peter Parker Need To Die In Order to Relaunch the Ultimate Universe?

[BrotherCool]

You don't see me buying The Ultimates, now do you?

So, the UU is very, very different now...based on what?

If you don't want to answer my question, or are unable to, just say so.

Again, experiencing different (or even similar) events will make someone different. If I lost my grandmother 5 or 10 years earlier, I could have been a very different person than I am today. Simple as that.

[JonathanC]

So, the UU is very, very different now...based on what?



Again, experiencing different (or even similar) events will make someone different. If I lost my grandmother 5 or 10 years earlier, I could have been a very different person than I am today. Simple as that.

That's not what I asked you. I asked a very specific question, and you seem unwilling to answer it, or even admit that you can't answer it.

[BrotherCool]

That's not what I asked you. I asked a very specific question, and you seem unwilling to answer it, or even admit that you can't answer it.

You're not wanting to accept my answer.

Their experiences make them different. For enumerated examples, please refer to Ultimate Spider-man #1/2 to #160.

[Zak213]

I dont think he needed to die in story for the x-men and ultimates to go on to where they are going.

He needed to die for Marvel to prove that UU will go in directions 616 wont.

[Genki Sudo]

In the words of Gob Bluth, I've made a terrible mistake.

That's your fault for giving away the animation rights

If Ult.Peter and 616 Peter are really that easily exchangable then why did Ultimate Spider-Man sold at all? Why isn't people just buying Amazing and be done with it?

That pesky, "I don't want to get hampered with all that continuity" or the ever popular "One More Day sucked and makes me mad! I don't care how long ago it was and people have moved on IT STILL HAPPENED TO ME!!!!"

[LJ-90]

That pesky, "I don't want to get hampered with all that continuity" or the ever popular "One More Day sucked and makes me mad! I don't care how long ago it was and people have moved on IT STILL HAPPENED TO ME!!!!"

So...what about "There's no other current comic where I can read about Peter sharing his secret with MJ, Gwen, Human Torch and Bobby, where they're all in a highschool setting and where Marvel doesn't seem so eager in keeping MJ and Peter apart"?

Like I said, I really don't think the answer is "go read 616" because people enjoyed Ultimate Peter for a myriad of reasons. I love the new direction, I'm moved on from Peter's death and because of DoSM now I'm reading all Ultimate titles, because I wanted to see how the other characters were doing.

I just don't think the UU Peter and 616Peter are the same or their stories are basically the same, just like BrotherCool is saying, they're alike, but it's not the same reading current ASM and USM.

[Darman456]

That's your fault for giving away the animation rights



That pesky, "I don't want to get hampered with all that continuity" or the ever popular "One More Day sucked and makes me mad! I don't care how long ago it was and people have moved on IT STILL HAPPENED TO ME!!!!"

Mostly the former. I'm trying to figure out where to jump on the title so I have a clear idea of what's going on.

[Darman456]

So...what about "There's no other current comic where I can read about Peter sharing his secret with MJ, Gwen, Human Torch and Bobby, where they're all in a highschool setting and where Marvel doesn't seem so eager in keeping MJ and Peter together"?

Like I said, I really don't think the answer is "go read 616" because people enjoyed Ultimate Peter for a myriad of reasons. I love the new direction, I'm moved on from Peter's death and because of DoSM now I'm reading all Ultimate titles, because I wanted to see how the other characters were doing.

I just don't think the UU Peter and 616Peter are the same or their stories are basically the same, just like BrotherCool is saying, they're alike, but it's not the same reading current ASM and USM.

I really wish people would stop saying they are the same. Nothing makes me madder. I like Miles but I loved UU Peter. And whenever I say I liked Peter better than I like Miles (yes, even two arcs in I liked Peter better) I should go read 616. They're NOT the same. Stop saying things like that.

[Heroid]

There was no need for Peter Parker to die. USM was the best and most successful book of the Ultimate line. The other UU titles were a total mess. They should have killed the characters in those books and left USM alone. But because they needed an "event" they chose Ultimate Peter Parker for the fall guy. What will they do when they screw it all up again? (Because they will.)

USM thrived for years because it was a good, stand-alone title. You didn't have to read a crossover event to follow it. (I stopped reading USM when Ultimatum started and didn't pick it back up until the "six months later" book and didn't miss a beat.) There was no need to upset the status quo of a book that had nothing wrong with it. UXM and Ultimates are no better than they were before and the current USM is crap.

The best thing that could happen at this point would be for the UU to get cancelled and another project (Untold Marvel Universe?) take its place.

[JonathanC]

I really wish people would stop saying they are the same. Nothing makes me madder. I like Miles but I loved UU Peter. And whenever I say I liked Peter better than I like Miles (yes, even two arcs in I liked Peter better) I should go read 616. They're NOT the same. Stop saying things like that.

Okay, if they aren't basically the same guy, then tell me what the differences are. I read the first year or so of Ultimate Spider-Man several years ago, and he seemed like Spider-Man, written in the Bendis style. He sounds the same in Avengers (616). Is it an age thing? Peter Parker has to be a teenager for you guys? I'm not saying that there is absolutely no difference, I'm asking what that difference is, if you insist that it exists.

[Rasputin9977]

Didn't sales go up due to the relaunch?

[LJ-90]

Okay, if they aren't basically the same guy, then tell me what the differences are. I read the first year or so of Ultimate Spider-Man several years ago, and he seemed like Spider-Man, written in the Bendis style. He sounds the same in Avengers (616). Is it an age thing? Peter Parker has to be a teenager for you guys? I'm not saying that there is absolutely no difference, I'm asking what that difference is, if you insist that it exists.

Peter lived in his house with Gwen Stacy, Johnny Storm and Bobby, all of them knowing the true identities of each other.
Aunt May knew Peter was Spider-Man, and supported him.
MJ and Peter were getting back together.
Peter had the support of the DB.
Because of his age he was still learning, and yeah, he was making a lot of mistakes but his storie had a lot of heart.
Ultimate villains are not the same as 616 villains with some exceptions.

And so on. Look, I love Miles, I don't want him to go anywhere because you can just read him in USM, but I can understand why things are not so simple as just saying "go read 616". Because of the character's age, and because of the continuity of the Ultimate Universe, this Spider-Man stories were different. I didn't liked the Amazing Spider-Man even before OMD, but I read USM because I enjoyed the way stories were unfolding in this universe.

It's like, if suddenly Cap, Thor and Tony die you just say "go read Avengers if you miss the Ultimates so much", not the same thing. Similar, yes, but not the same.

The only point that I think Darman and BrotherCool are trying to make, I think, it's that things are not so simple as just saying "Miss Ultimate Peter? Read 616" because, hell, if that's the case, the death of Peter didn't meant a thing because I could be reading about him in any other number of books. Because of the nature of the UU and the stories there the characters have diferencies. Like saying "Miss the pre-new52 Superman? Go read Smallville". Similar characters, but not the same.

Now, I don't know about the other guys, but I moved on, I think I like Miles more than I liked Peter, but that doesn't change the fact that I can see where the others are coming from.

[Genki Sudo]

Mostly the former. I'm trying to figure out where to jump on the title so I have a clear idea of what's going on.

The current arc with the Lizard is a good one

[wyokid]

Peter lived in his house with Gwen Stacy, Johnny Storm and Bobby, all of them knowing the true identities of each other.
Aunt May knew Peter was Spider-Man, and supported him.
MJ and Peter were getting back together.
Peter had the support of the DB.
Because of his age he was still learning, and yeah, he was making a lot of mistakes but his storie had a lot of heart.
Ultimate villains are not the same as 616 villains with some exceptions.

All of which are SUPPORTING character differences NOT main. And Smallville IS pre-reboot Superman.

[Kurolegacy]

Peter lived in his house with Gwen Stacy, Johnny Storm and Bobby, all of them knowing the true identities of each other.
Aunt May knew Peter was Spider-Man, and supported him.
MJ and Peter were getting back together.
Peter had the support of the DB.
Because of his age he was still learning, and yeah, he was making a lot of mistakes but his storie had a lot of heart.
Ultimate villains are not the same as 616 villains with some exceptions.

And so on. Look, I love Miles, I don't want him to go anywhere because you can just read him in USM, but I can understand why things are not so simple as just saying "go read 616". Because of the character's age, and because of the continuity of the Ultimate Universe, this Spider-Man stories were different. I didn't liked the Amazing Spider-Man even before OMD, but I read USM because I enjoyed the way stories were unfolding in this universe.

It's like, if suddenly Cap, Thor and Tony die you just say "go read Avengers if you miss the Ultimates so much", not the same thing. Similar, yes, but not the same.

The only point that I think Darman and BrotherCool are trying to make, I think, it's that things are not so simple as just saying "Miss Ultimate Peter? Read 616" because, hell, if that's the case, the death of Peter didn't meant a thing because I could be reading about him in any other number of books. Because of the nature of the UU and the stories there the characters have diferencies. Like saying "Miss the pre-new52 Superman? Go read Smallville". Similar characters, but not the same.

Now, I don't know about the other guys, but I moved on, I think I like Miles more than I liked Peter, but that doesn't change the fact that I can see where the others are coming from.

It's completely true and I agree with them in their sentiment of annoyance at people saying that 616 and Ultimate Peter are interchangeable. They may share the same name and costume but the experience is completely different and this is coming from someone who's read both Amazing and Ultimate. In fact, it's that kind of thought process that's a reason why they believe they need to bring in all these characters in established character's places to begin with because people treat them like they're interchangeable. The very experience in both books are completely different, grounded in worlds that are just as different. Beyond being bitten by a spider and Uncle Ben dying, their stories have gone in completely different directions. It really was something to see these world changing events happening before a teenage Peter Parker's eyes, putting him in positions that are much more mature than his age. With Amazing Spider-Man, you just don't get that kind of feel due to the fact that he's been doing these things since he was Ultimate Peter's age. he's not being thrust into a world more mature than he is, he's been living in it for years. It's basically comparing someone who's been thrust into a war they didn't know existed compared to someone who's lived this same war and become a pro; the points of view are completely different as are the tones.