Did Peter Parker Need To Die In Order to Relaunch the Ultimate Universe?

[JonathanC]

I think you could've changed the status quo, made Miles Spider-Man and kept Peter alive. The whole point of the Death of Spider-Man was to reintroduce the Ultimate Universe to the world. But, after the event, it went back to its normal numbers in terms of issue sales. So, the whole point of the Death of Spider-Man was to earn cash for that one specific event. And, if you had an event, you could relaunch it and pute Peter in a new place so MARVEL can introduce a new Spider-Man in Miles.

If Peter was alive, Miles wouldn't be Spider-Man. It's that simple. He'd be some crappy "fake" Spider-Man with a fake Spider-Man name, like Scarlet Spider. It just dilutes the name, dooms the new character to failure, and embarrasses the original character. If you want a Spider-Man comic where Peter is alive, there are tons of books for you to read: Amazing Spider-Man, Avenging Spider-Man, New Avengers, and whatever 616 books he's guest-starring in this month.


I'm not even a huge fan of Miles, but the fact that Marvel seems to be seriously trying to make the Ultimate Universe more than just an "edgy" re-telling of 616 is the only reason I have any interest in the Ultimate line right now.

[JonathanC]

The Ultimates are ties to the original UU and nobody's whining about them being alive.

To be fair, a whole bunch of them did die.

[Darman456]

If Peter was alive, Miles wouldn't be Spider-Man. It's that simple. He'd be some crappy "fake" Spider-Man with a fake Spider-Man name, like Scarlet Spider. It just dilutes the name, dooms the new character to failure, and embarrasses the original character. If you want a Spider-Man comic where Peter is alive, there are tons of books for you to read: Amazing Spider-Man, Avenging Spider-Man, New Avengers, and whatever 616 books he's guest-starring in this month.


I'm not even a huge fan of Miles, but the fact that Marvel seems to be seriously trying to make the Ultimate Universe more than just an "edgy" re-telling of 616 is the only reason I have any interest in the Ultimate line right now.

Still think they could've done two seperate ongoing universes. One where Peter lives. The other where he dies and Miles becomes Spider-Man.

[MagnaInferno]

Don't get me wrong, I love Miles, but don't you think it might've been better if Bendis and Co. launched a different universe (with the events of Death of Spider-Man kicking it off) from the UU so people who wanted to read Miles could and people who wanted to read Peter could still do that. It would've brought more revenue to MARVEL as two series could've been running with two very cool characters running around under that suit and most people would read both as DoSM would be a helluva an event to kick off another What-If? long running universe.

Yes, starting ANOTHER universe would have been a brilliant idea, because the Ultimate line is currently selling gang busters.
Look I loved Ultimate Peter as much as the next dude, he got me back into the modern age comics. I had a tear or two when reading #160, but the fact of the matter is, he is dead in a universe where that currently means he is dead for good. And by creating thread after thread about different shades of I want a book with Peter Parker back disrespects the fictional character's sacrifice he made for his family.

[JonathanC]

Still think they could've done two seperate ongoing universes. One where Peter lives. The other where he dies and Miles becomes Spider-Man.

That's exactly what they did. The Ultimate Universe is now the place where Peter Parker died. 616 is the universe where Peter Parker lives.


Also, technically, Peter Parker IS alive in the Ultimate Universe, as Jessica Drew (who is a clone with his memories/basically his personality).


EDIT: I absolutely regret registering an account to reply to this thread. In the words of Gob Bluth, I've made a terrible mistake.

[Darman456]

That's exactly what they did. The Ultimate Universe is now the place where Peter Parker died. 616 is the universe where Peter Parker lives.


Also, technically, Peter Parker IS alive in the Ultimate Universe, as Jessica Drew (who is a clone with his memories/basically his personality).


EDIT: I absolutely regret registering an account to reply to this thread. In the words of Gob Bluth, I've made a terrible mistake.

Whatever. I'm so sick of people bashing me for everything I do.

[JonathanC]

Whatever. I'm so sick of people bashing me for everything I do.

I'm not sure I understand. You said that you wanted Marvel to have two universes: one where Peter is dead and Miles exists, and one where Peter is alive and Miles doesn't.


THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID. What more do you want?

[wyokid]

Yes, starting ANOTHER universe would have been a brilliant idea, because the Ultimate line is current selling gang busters.
Look I loved Ultimate Peter as much as the next dude, he got back into the modern age comics. I had a tear or two when reading #160, but the fact of the matter is, he is dead in a universe where that currently means he is dead for good. And by creating thread after thread about different shades of I want a book with Peter Parker back disrespects the fictional character's sacrifice he made for his family.

Indeed it does.

[BrotherCool]

I'm not sure I understand. You said that you wanted Marvel to have two universes: one where Peter is dead and Miles exists, and one where Peter is alive and Miles doesn't.


THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THEY DID. What more do you want?

No. He wants two Ultimate Universes.


Some people really need to stop pretending that the UU and the 616 are interchangeable. 616 Pete is not Ultimate Pete. Is 616 Nick Fury interchanegable with Ultimate Nick Fury? Of course not.

[JonathanC]

No. He wants two Ultimate Universes.


Some people really need to stop pretending that the UU and the 616 are interchangeable. 616 Pete is not Ultimate Pete. Is 616 Nick Fury interchanegable with Ultimate Nick Fury? Of course not.

Educate me. How exactly are Ultimate Peter Parker and 616 Peter Parker (when written by Brian Bendis, as he is in most issues of Avengers) all that different as people? 616 Peter is older. Post-OMD, he isn't even married anymore, so they don't even have that separating them anymore.


Ultimate/616 Fury have race separating them, plus the fact that Ult. Fury is basically a composite of Nick Fury and Isaiah Bradley from 616. Even so, both Nick Furys are very similar.

[BrotherCool]

Educate me. How exactly are Ultimate Peter Parker and 616 Peter Parker (when written by Brian Bendis, as he is in most issues of Avengers) all that different as people? 616 Peter is older. Post-OMD, he isn't even married anymore, so they don't even have that separating them anymore.


Ultimate/616 Fury have race separating them, plus the fact that Ult. Fury is basically a composite of Nick Fury and Isaiah Bradley from 616. Even so, both Nick Furys are very similar.

You've done a good job on your own.

It's the old clone arguement. Even if you have a clone that is a 100% DNA match, different life experiences make you different.

What has happened to both 616 Pete and Ultimate Pete in the exact same way? If they are interchangeable, then every single event that has ever happened to one has happened to the other. Exact to every single detail. This is not the case. Now educate me. If I'm wrong, what are these events?

[JonathanC]

You've done a good job on your own.

It's the old clone arguement. Even if you have a clone that is a 100% DNA match, different life experiences make you different.

What has happened to both 616 Pete and Ultimate Pete in the exact same way? If they are interchangeable, then every single event that has ever happened to one has happened to the other. Exact to every single detail. This is not the case. Now educate me. If I'm wrong, what are these events?

Let me rephrase my question: Can you please enumerate the ways in which Ultimate Peter Parker is a significantly different person from 616 Peter Parker? Are their core beliefs different in some way? What would Ultimate Peter Parker be willing to do that 616 Parker would not, and/or vice-versa? Why isn't reading 616 a reasonable substitute for having Ultimate Peter alive again?


I've been very "meh" on the Ultimate line for years because it was basically just the same dudes, "modernized". I'm interested in the line now because the Ultimate universe is now a very, very different place from 616.

[BrotherCool]

Let me rephrase my question: Can you please enumerate the ways in which Ultimate Peter Parker is a significantly different person from 616 Peter Parker? Are their core beliefs different in some way? What would Ultimate Peter Parker be willing to do that 616 Parker would not, and/or vice-versa? Why isn't reading 616 a reasonable substitute for having Ultimate Peter alive again?

I see that we are just going around in circles here, because I just asked you the reverse.

I've been very "meh" on the Ultimate line for years because it was basically just the same dudes, "modernized". I'm interested in the line now because the Ultimate universe is now a very, very different place from 616.

And now we are at the core of the discussion. At last count, the UU still has more "same dudes" than "different dudes". How are the 616 and UU Caps different at their core? The Iron Mans? The Thors?

[JonathanC]

I see that we are just going around in circles here, because I just asked you the reverse.



And now we are at the core of the discussion. At last count, the UU still has more "same dudes" than "different dudes". How are the 616 and UU Caps different at their core? The Iron Mans? The Thors?

You don't see me buying The Ultimates, now do you? If you don't want to answer my question, or are unable to, just say so.

[LJ-90]

If Ult.Peter and 616 Peter are really that easily exchangable then why did Ultimate Spider-Man sold at all? Why isn't people just buying Amazing and be done with it?

I love Miles, I don't want Ultimate Peter back because I think DoSM was a really good "The End" story, but I don't see the point in telling people "go read 616" because, well, there are people who only read Ultimate Marvel, and there are reasons for that. Maybe Ultimate Peter and 616 Peter are very alike, but they aren't really interchangeable.