Did Peter Parker Need To Die In Order to Relaunch the Ultimate Universe?

[Overhazard]

Yes, I think peter needed to die. His death changed the ultimate universe, ultimately "ha ha" for the better. His death is what triggered the most change in the ultimate universe. Its become more dark and dystopian. Well, the ultimate universe was always a little dark, but peter parker was that one shred of hope in it. Then that shread was gone, or so we thought. Older heroes had to change their ways. Newer heroes like Miles had to rise up and take charge in peter's stead.

Unfortunate as it is, yes. Peter simply had to go, and this is coming from someone who doesn't like Miles.

[Daybreak_st]

Honestly, I would have liked it if Peter had died during Ultimatium and gotten Miles earlier.

I'm glad that didn't happen. Ultimatium had sensationalized deaths all over the place. The deaths felt cheap. Personally I'm glad Bendis did whatever he had to, so Peter stayed alive and died on his own merits, where his death hand genuine emotional impact. Delaying his death also allowed for some great stories after the relaunch when Johnny and Bobby moved in. No, DOSM may not have been necessary but if they had to kill him I'm glad it was there and not tied to some cheap event with a gratuitous death.

Now to the topic under discussion...his death showcased the difference between 616 and Ult U. yes other important characters have died, Cyclops, Wolverine, etc, but their deaths only ever effect their supporting casts directly. So yes they impacted the X-men books but that's it. Pete on the other hand was the linchpin uniting the whole Ultimate U in the first place. He crossed over with all the other books. His book was the longest running and most consistent. His book was the shinning light of the Ultimate U. I don't think I'm alone in saying the only reason I remained interested in the Ultimate U was for Ultimate Spider-man. So their willingness to kill him off in grand fashion had both external and internal impact. It wasn't hard to believe that his death would affect every single character in the Ultimate Universe not simply his supporting cast. Also on the external side it sent shock-waves through the comic book community, bc Spidey was dead. That huge impact also setup things very nicely for a relaunch featuring a completely new Spider-man. Everyone had the same question "is it gonna be worth it?" Was it worth sacrificing the best book the Ult U had to offer...now months later I have to say...yes.

Could it have been approached differently? Sure. But would another approach have had the same internal (in comic) and external (real world) impact without his death...no I don't think so.

[refrax5]

Honestly, I don't find that it was necessary to kill Peter off in order for the relaunch to have happened. While about half of Fallout was because of it, events like Miles gaining powers, Reed and the Children, Stryker and the Purifiers and the People would have happened regardless of if he lived or died. As was, even if Peter hadn't died, Johnny and Bobby would have had to leave Peter's house after DoSM since they had blown their cover by fighting the Sinister Six on Peter's lawn and would have had to go underground anyway since I doubt Johnny would want to go back to his sister. Also Miles may have gained a mentor in the form of Peter to help him with what he was dealing with with his new powers and showing him the true meaning of with great power comes great responsibility acting as an Uncle Ben figure for him. As for the other events, aside from Steve quitting as Captain America, DoSM had no bearing on them. So I still don't find that it was necessary to kill off Peter for the relaunch to happen, it was merely for another change in the status quo involving death (something I feel that they need to stop doing so much if they're going for dead is dead).

Why doesn't Johnny want to go back to his sister? I never really read Ultimate FF and they seemed retty tight in the Ultimate Doomsday trilogy.

[Zak213]

Why doesn't Johnny want to go back to his sister? I never really read Ultimate FF and they seemed retty tight in the Ultimate Doomsday trilogy.

just the desire to be on his own and among his peers.

[Darman456]

Dude, you should have been here when Peter died. We had a new thread every week most made by Darman.

That seems like a personal comment. Which isn't really fair, since I've got nothing on you. Besides that avatar, of course. But, seriously, why do you hate me so much?

[Darman456]

I think it was necessary b/c Peter was such a tie to the old Ultimate Universe. He's been around as a constant ever since the UU began, and while his supporting cast has changed, he himself, and his purpose, never really became anything else. Which was not a bad thing, just a steady one.

UC:XM has its cast in a situation they've never been in: on the run, fighting an actual war to help mutants, which never had come to fruition before. Kitty's its leader, in a different role than she's ever been. Meanwhile, the Ultimates are trying to save the world from multitudes of threats, initially without Cap, who had always been there for them.

These two series were drastically different, but for Kitty to change into this leader and Cap to leave, you needed Peter gone. We needed Peter to die to force Kitty and Cap into their new roles. Without Peter dead, two of the UU's current Big Three would be in their former status quos.

The Ultimates are ties to the original UU and nobody's whining about them being alive.

[President Kang]

Peter didn't need to die, which is why it happened, which is why it's a great story. It has a sad ending. It's very powerful and very well done. You don't really get many "last" Spider-Man stories. And in a continuity where it will stick!

[Trallis]

As someone who is new to the ultimate universe.. Never been a big marvel fan until recently(due to my discovery of ultimate universe), I enjoy miles and think it's nice peter is gone. I feel like if I want a peter parker story i could pick up one of the other spider-man titles. But thats off topic I guess I never saw anything before death of spider man so I really enjoyed the Death of Spider-man arc. Did he need to die probably not.. But I'm sure glad he did :)

No, that's not off topic, it's the exact reason why Peter Parker's death made sense.

[Trallis]

I think you could've changed the status quo, made Miles Spider-Man and kept Peter alive. The whole point of the Death of Spider-Man was to reintroduce the Ultimate Universe to the world. But, after the event, it went back to its normal numbers in terms of issue sales. So, the whole point of the Death of Spider-Man was to earn cash for that one specific event. And, if you had an event, you could relaunch it and pute Peter in a new place so MARVEL can introduce a new Spider-Man in Miles.

Sorry but can you provide a source for this statement? Everything I said was my opinion of why it made sense to have Peter Parker die, and what I thought was their reasoning behind it, but you're telling me you know why they did it and that their whole plan was a failure. Can you show me where you got this info from?
It seems like you're saying that Marvel wanted to do Death Of Spider-Man not because it was a good story, but simply because it would make money. Well of course the main purpose of any comic is to make money, it's their job.. but many comics that make a lot of money do so because they have great stories. Comics do not lose all artistic integrity because they make money. It seems like you're saying that Death of Spider-Man was not chosen because of it's good story, but just because it would bring in money and attention. I think it was one of those stories that was chosen because it was a great idea. And great ideas make money.

And I'm gonna say this one more time. If you want to read about Peter Parker you can. He's not dead! I believe he's fighting the Lizard in the 616. Go read that.

An early death is the greatest honor a fictional character can get. He didn't live to see a single boring issue. He didn't grow old or become something we'd already seen before. He didn't slow down, he didn't fade out and become a less popular character. He was immortalized. His story ended at it's climax and that's how he'll always be remembered. Ultimate Peter Parker will always be a teenage hero who lived really fast and accomplished as much as he possibly could in that time.

It didn't have to be done, but it was certainly a great idea, and it solved the problem of "how do we keep making Ultimate Spider-Man a special book"

[Darman456]

Sorry but can you provide a source for this statement? Everything I said was my opinion of why it made sense to have Peter Parker die, and what I thought was their reasoning behind it, but you're telling me you know why they did it and that their whole plan was a failure. Can you show me where you got this info from?
It seems like you're saying that Marvel wanted to do Death Of Spider-Man not because it was a good story, but simply because it would make money. Well of course the main purpose of any comic is to make money, it's their job.. but many comics that make a lot of money do so because they have great stories. Comics do not lose all artistic integrity because they make money. It seems like you're saying that Death of Spider-Man was not chosen because of it's good story, but just because it would bring in money and attention. I think it was one of those stories that was chosen because it was a great idea. And great ideas make money.

And I'm gonna say this one more time. If you want to read about Peter Parker you can. He's not dead! I believe he's fighting the Lizard in the 616. Go read that.

An early death is the greatest honor a fictional character can get. He didn't live to see a single boring issue. He didn't grow old or become something we'd already seen before. He didn't slow down, he didn't fade out and become a less popular character. He was immortalized. His story ended at it's climax and that's how he'll always be remembered. Ultimate Peter Parker will always be a teenage hero who lived really fast and accomplished as much as he possibly could in that time.

It didn't have to be done, but it was certainly a great idea, and it solved the problem of "how do we keep making Ultimate Spider-Man a special book"

I'm sorry, I will amend my original statement. After the first issue of Miles's arrival (likely because people wanted it because it would be worth money), the sales fell back to their normal rate. Which isn't bad, but it isn't extraordinary. So anyone reading the previous issues in the Ultimate Universe were, in turn, reading this. There were a few new faces, I agree. We did lose a few though (at least I think, don't know if people actually made good on those "threats"). And, yes, I thought Peter died tastefully, in the only way he could in any continuity. And I do think the idea is sound in terms of it tells a good story. But, there are a few errors in judgement that don't really make sense with the characters (Captain America not going back for Peter, nobody acknowledging Peter being shot, nobody making sure he goes to a hospital and no one going after the Sinister Six). But, I guess that happens in any story, so I'll let that go. And, I didn't stop reading these books. I picked up (and am going to get the trades because that's the only way I'm getting them) the trades and read them. I like Miles. I really do. And a lot of people think that this is just another "Oh, I love Peter, I wish he hadn't died" thread. This isn't that. I was just wondering if people thought, creativly, if Peter had survived would it benefit the UU more? I personally think yes but you have a right to your own opinion. I would love to have Miles AND Peter. But that didn't happen. I was wondering if people thought it would be cool to have both in there. And as to people attacking me constantly (wyokid), I don't know what I can do to make you guys stop, so please, by all means, keep bashing me.

[Trallis]

I'm sorry, I will amend my original statement. After the first issue of Miles's arrival (likely because people wanted it because it would be worth money), the sales fell back to their normal rate. Which isn't bad, but it isn't extraordinary. So anyone reading the previous issues in the Ultimate Universe were, in turn, reading this. There were a few new faces, I agree. We did lose a few though (at least I think, don't know if people actually made good on those "threats"). And, yes, I thought Peter died tastefully, in the only way he could in any continuity. And I do think the idea is sound in terms of it tells a good story. But, there are a few errors in judgement that don't really make sense with the characters (Captain America not going back for Peter, nobody acknowledging Peter being shot, nobody making sure he goes to a hospital and no one going after the Sinister Six). But, I guess that happens in any story, so I'll let that go. And, I didn't stop reading these books. I picked up (and am going to get the trades because that's the only way I'm getting them) the trades and read them. I like Miles. I really do. And a lot of people think that this is just another "Oh, I love Peter, I wish he hadn't died" thread. This isn't that. I was just wondering if people thought, creativly, if Peter had survived would it benefit the UU more? I personally think yes but you have a right to your own opinion. I would love to have Miles AND Peter. But that didn't happen. I was wondering if people thought it would be cool to have both in there. And as to people attacking me constantly (wyokid), I don't know what I can do to make you guys stop, so please, by all means, keep bashing me.

Captain America was holding Peter in his arms and telling him how heroic he was when War Machine blew up the bridge. Spidey was the only one who didn't fall in the water. Captain America later in a conversation said "still nothing on spider-man" which implies he probably at least checked for him before going back to Stark's place, Peter had already blacked out, woken up and left.

[Trallis]

double post

[Darman456]

Captain America was holding Peter in his arms and telling him how heroic he was and then War Machine came and blew up the bridge. Spidey was the only one who didn't fall in the water. Captain America later in a conversation said "still nothing on spider-man" which implies he probably at least checked for him before going back to Stark's place, Peter had already blacked out, woken up and left.

Double post? I just think that they should've at least gone searching for him (like sending a team out for him) instead of leaving him there. But that's being nit picky and this isn't really a place to discuss what I did and didn't like about DoSM. I was talking about, as I said before, would it be better creativly if they left Peter alive but moved him to a new place?

[BrotherCool]

And I'm gonna say this one more time. If you want to read about Peter Parker you can. He's not dead! I believe he's fighting the Lizard in the 616. Go read that.

Out of all arguements for "getting over" Pete's death, this is the silliest. There was a reason that I (won't speak for others) read comics about Ultimate Pete and not about 616 Pete. This arguement tries to make the case that the UU and 616 are interchangable. They are not. Period.



As to the topic: For the current storylines, did Pete need to die? No. Like some have said, Pete could have stopped being Spider-man quite easily to make room for Miles. A Peter Parker who isn't Spider-man? You can't read that in the 616. If (and this a big if) Pete ever did come back, I'd say keep Miles as Spider-man and give Pete a new direction.

[Genki Sudo]

A book with Pete and Miles while seems like a good idea is not as people who want Peter will buy it but complain about Miles being in it since Peter is there with some Miles fans going vice versa. All we will just see a bigger or as big divide DC has done with the three known Batgirls( search any Batgirl thread in the Batman thread to see my point )