What Are Marvel Editors Really 'Critiquing' About the X-Men?

[darknessatnoon]

If there is no mutant society then the X-Men would have achieved their goal of peaceful coexistance. That's what they wanted since day one. To coexist with humankind as equals, not to be separated.

coexistence DOES NOT mean integration and cohabitation. In English, they are entirely different concepts.

[.A²]

Elsewhere, New Mutants, one of the few books that purportedly deals with coexistence as its explicit post-Regenesis thematic, has been cancelled.

[darknessatnoon]

Elsewhere, New Mutants, one of the few books that purportedly deals with coexistence as its explicit post-Regenesis thematic, has been cancelled.

That book proved to me that mutants and old Latverian women can share a block.

[Valeria Kementari]

coexistence DOES NOT mean integration and cohabitation. In English, they are entirely different concepts.

Xavier's dream was all about integration and living among humanity. He never proposed a mutant-only state. His dream was to live with humans, among humans, as equals. And Xavier's dream is what makes the X-Men, X-Men. A mutant-only world is what Magneto proposed. Those are the two basic ideas of the book, the two sides of the coin. X-Men fight to live with humanity, Brotherhood fight to live without humanity. Marvel is just trying to return to that basic notion without grey areas.

[.A²]

That book proved to me that mutants and old Latverian women can share a block.

Bigos Doomorsch breaks down the social boundaries between mutant, human, technarch, sorcerer and intergalactic herald.

[darknessatnoon]

Xavier's dream was all about integration and living among humanity. He never proposed a mutant-only state. His dream was to live with humans, among humans, as equals. And Xavier's dream is what makes the X-Men, X-Men. A mutant-only world is what Magneto proposed. Those are the two basic ideas of the book, the two sides of the coin. X-Men fight to live with humanity, Brotherhood fight to live without humanity. Marvel is just trying to return to that basic notion without grey areas.

Point to one time that Xavier ever discussed his vision of the state at all. It's not like he was running a place like the Massachusetts Academy where mutants learned to attend school with humans. Emma Frost, in practice, was far more of an integrationist and assimilationist than Xavier was. Xavier had a mansion that housed an elite mutant-only prep school. If that's not segregation, I don't know what is. Magneto at least demanded that mutants arm themselves with an economy, weapons and a tiered political structure. Xavier sat there like an autocrat, attempting to exclusively rule the mutant race.

If you're going to look at pre-Morrison X-Men comics for political content, you're not going to find anything remotely coherent.

[Dr. Sonic]

Captain America, and the Avengers in general are all better characters when there is a republican in the White House. Osborn was a thinly veiled representation of Dick Cheney and I definitely rooted for Clint to put an arrow in his head. Now that Obama is President, The Avengers are relegated to the role of governmental stooges and it’s a lot less fun. But I’ll take my comics being less good if it entails keeping the conservative out of power.

[Valeria Kementari]

Point to one time that Xavier ever discussed his vision of the state at all. It's not like he was running a place like the Massachusetts Academy where mutants learned to attend school with humans. Emma Frost, in practice, was far more of an integrationist and assimilationist than Xavier was. Xavier had a mansion that housed an elite mutant-only prep school. If that's not segregation, I don't know what is. Magneto at least demanded that mutants arm themselves with an economy, weapons and a tiered political structure. Xavier sat there like an autocrat, attempting to exclusively rule the mutant race.

He was nearly killed for it. Xavier knew humanity wasn't ready for integration. Emma Frost used the human children at her school to prove to her students how they were nothing but cattle, there for their amusement. She wanted to teach her mutant students to manipulate and use the humans without being discovered, just like the Inner Circle did. She was just preparing the next batch of infiltrators and manipulators.

[darknessatnoon]

Where does he say that mutants should live with humans? He says that they're "family." Do you live with your parents? Yes, there is an evolutionary kinship relation that no one in the comics has ever denied anyway. At the end of the day, that's just watered down Martin Luther King with none of the politics-kind of vague liberalism: white people trying to summarize what "civil rights" means to them. The author of that wasn't smart. It was a bunch of very "safe" sentiments to voice, but it was also why 90s X-Men comics are known for their lack of complexity. Just soft dreaminess-form without content.

[Pixie_Solanas]

Cultural commodification blurring the struggle to exist, to be independent, to have a real, heard voice. Is Marvel implying that the x is content for mere recognition and reconciliation with the more dominant power structure (i.e. the Avengers, less a military junta than a full-fledged government platform - funded and backed 100%). "When the dominant culture demands that the Other be offered as sign that progressive political change is taking place, that the American Dream can indeed be inclusive of difference, it invites a resurgence of essentialist cultural nationalism." (Torgovnick) The message is being diluted, ignored, covered in a some nationalist drapery. Former icons of the movement are shedding their hard-fought clothes of symbolism for the latest gauzy trend in an Avengers group shot.

The struggle is never more real.

[Hambone]

This integration with the Avengers is fun. I would have paid money to see Captain America going through the candidates.

Storm? She is too exotic. And is she even American?
Beast? Please, he can not pass as a human. or a white person.
Dust? Yeah sure *laughs*
Gambit? Red eyes. And he is some sort of french. You know I hate french people.
Marrow? She is way too mutant for this.

Heh, because Marrow's been such an integral part of the Extinction Team, or even the X-line in general. What with her ability to occassional throw someone a bone or whatever.

[Dr. Sonic]

Cultural commodification blurring the struggle to exist, to be independent, to have a real, heard voice. Is Marvel implying that the x is content for mere recognition and reconciliation with the more dominant power structure (i.e. the Avengers, less a military junta than a full-fledged government platform - funded and backed 100%). "When the dominant culture demands that the Other be offered as sign that progressive political change is taking place, that the American Dream can indeed be inclusive of difference, it invites a resurgence of essentialist cultural nationalism." (Torgovnick) The message is being diluted, ignored, covered in a some nationalist drapery. Former icons of the movement are shedding their hard-fought clothes of symbolism for the latest gauzy trend in an Avengers group shot.
The struggle is never more real.

Right on. Throw that bottle, Sergey Nechayev!

[darknessatnoon]

Cultural commodification blurring the struggle to exist, to be independent, to have a real, heard voice. Is Marvel implying that the x is content for mere recognition and reconciliation with the more dominant power structure (i.e. the Avengers, less a military junta than a full-fledged government platform - funded and backed 100%). "When the dominant culture demands that the Other be offered as sign that progressive political change is taking place, that the American Dream can indeed be inclusive of difference, it invites a resurgence of essentialist cultural nationalism." (Torgovnick) The message is being diluted, ignored, covered in a some nationalist drapery. Former icons of the movement are shedding their hard-fought clothes of symbolism for the latest gauzy trend in an Avengers group shot.

The struggle is never more real.

This commodification from on high (editorial) completely ignores the realistic obligations mutants owe to one another. I prefer obligation to identity as a working concept. Mutants are drawn to one another without knowing what has drawn them, and bound them without them realizing it. It's certainly not fear that brings people together. Fear is not enough of a motivator to convince anyone to enter into a paramilitary arrangement (be it with Xavier or Magneto or Cyclops). That sense of obligation isn't quite "choice" either.

[Winterfell]

I’m still quite sore about the looming loss of the awesome Extinction Team;
the one silver lining could be that I can go back to rooting for the villains (which I’ve always sort of preferred)

Indeed, the Extinction team is full of badassery/ I can't think of any Avengers team, current included, with that much firepower. They will be missed by all mutantkind.

It's funny how it actually applies more to the editors than to the characters they're critiquing.

Best thread of 2012. xpoty?

Yes to this.

Cultural commodification blurring the struggle to exist, to be independent, to have a real, heard voice. Is Marvel implying that the x is content for mere recognition and reconciliation with the more dominant power structure (i.e. the Avengers, less a military junta than a full-fledged government platform - funded and backed 100%). "When the dominant culture demands that the Other be offered as sign that progressive political change is taking place, that the American Dream can indeed be inclusive of difference, it invites a resurgence of essentialist cultural nationalism." (Torgovnick) The message is being diluted, ignored, covered in a some nationalist drapery. Former icons of the movement are shedding their hard-fought clothes of symbolism for the latest gauzy trend in an Avengers group shot.

The struggle is never more real.

Yes ESPECIALLY to this. Preach it!

Marvel seems to forget that the X-books have THRIVED whilst being separated fundamentally from the rest of the Marvel Universe. The Powers That Be seem to think that anything popular should be folded into the Avengers, because Marvel treasures them above all else.

Marvel NO! depresses me more than any developments in the X-Franchise for some time, maybe ever. Hopefully the rumored "Avenging X-Men" will be about Cyclops, Emma, Namor, Cable, Magik, Magneto, etc fighting to write the wrongs done to them by the Avengers, and not just another damn Avengers book that they slapped X-Men on to try and make it sell.

[Valeria Kementari]

Where does he say that mutants should live with humans? He says that they're "family." Do you live with your parents? Yes, there is an evolutionary kinship relation that no one in the comics has ever denied anyway. At the end of the day, that's just watered down Martin Luther King with none of the politics-kind of vague liberalism: white people trying to summarize what "civil rights" means to them. The author of that wasn't smart. It was a bunch of very "safe" sentiments to voice, but it was also why 90s X-Men comics are known for their lack of complexity. Just soft dreaminess-form without content.

Where does he say they shouldn't live with humans?



The X-Men are the flawed method to create the dream, and just like Kitty says, the dream is to live with humans and contribute to an evolved joint society of humans and mutants. In order for the dream to be fulfilled the X-Men have to end. They have to stop fighting as outcasts, as a separate entity. Joining the Avengers is a step closer to the dream.