Darkseid Respect Thread

[Desaad]

Yes, quite. Simonson is the only writer to follow through on what Kirby did.

Morrison's Darkseid is very explicitly something entirely different. It's compelling in its own right, and in keeping with his reformulation of the New Gods concept, but it has little in common with Kirby's Darkseid.

[FirestormTheNuclearMan]

He's a super villain that know's he's evil, and will admit it.

[Froggy]

I didn't expect Darkseid to so different in Forever People. It was easy for me to imagine the Superman TAS and Morrison FC versions to be the same, but looks like Kirby had a different idea of Darkseid.

Yeah he did, I think Desaad and others have summed this up already in such a perfect manner but he's a tyrant and I think Darkseid is more menacing when he's not getting physical with the heroes. He is one of the few villains who's presence should make the protagonist feel uneasy, just standing there

I do love like almost all iterations of him though, except superman/batman and some notable shoddy versions.

[Mr. Holmes]

Best version of Darkseid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTUJiyDXiMc

[batmanjones]

I think Darkseid is the most over-rated, dullest major villain in all of the DC Universe. I love Jack Kirby but the New Gods had its day in the 1970's. Desaad, Granny Goodness and Darkseid and the like are no less silly to me than Prez! or Funky Flashman. His name is pronounced "Dark Side." What is this? Masters of the Universe?

I thought one of those Crises a couple years back was supposed to get rid of this boring corner of the DCU. I'd rather read about Kamandi.

[Crisis]

They've confined Darkseid too much over the years. They made him too much of a physical threat and an enemy of Superman.

They focused way too much on making Darkseid just another bad guy who wants to kill and conquer. They've really failed to portray him as the scheming manipulator that he truly is. Destroying his enemies should mean nothing to him, such displays of power are petty and trivial. Darkseid's true goal is to make others see the hypocrisy and weakness of their own beliefs, to realize that he has always been right, to understand that the way of Darkseid is the drumbeat by which all of creation marches, and that they were wrong to ever oppose him in the first place.

Tying Darkseid so much to Superman trivializes what he is. Yes, Superman is powerful and he is a symbol of hope for humanity, but is just a man. Darkseid is a force that guides the destinies of countless species, his teachings have reigned over civilizations throughout all of history, and galaxies tremble at the mere echo of his name. His empire exists within the hearts and minds of all sentient beings and every man, woman, and child is a battlefield upon which he wages his war. One man, however super, cannot hope to stand against such a force. It should take the collective strength of the whole of humanity to even have a chance of turning back Darkseid's will.

That is the way he should be portrayed, enacting schemes upon schemes, plans within plans, with the purpose of corrupting all of humanity, turning it to his will, and making the world accept his teachings and the power it brings. He should be defeated not with Superman, or any other hero, punching him or destroying his armies, but by heroes setting an example, a single spark of hope and inspiration in an unending void of darkness, and rallying the world to speak out in one voice against Darkseid's will.

I think you've been infected with the anti-life equation: loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding × guilt × shame × failure × judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=dark side seek out metron for help.

[marshal99]

I think Darkseid is the most over-rated, dullest major villain in all of the DC Universe. I love Jack Kirby but the New Gods had its day in the 1970's. Desaad, Granny Goodness and Darkseid and the like are no less silly to me than Prez! or Funky Flashman. His name is pronounced "Dark Side." What is this? Masters of the Universe?

I thought one of those Crises a couple years back was supposed to get rid of this boring corner of the DCU. I'd rather read about Kamandi.

[FirestormTheNuclearMan]

I think Darkseid is the most over-rated, dullest major villain in all of the DC Universe. I love Jack Kirby but the New Gods had its day in the 1970's. Desaad, Granny Goodness and Darkseid and the like are no less silly to me than Prez! or Funky Flashman. His name is pronounced "Dark Side." What is this? Masters of the Universe?

I thought one of those Crises a couple years back was supposed to get rid of this boring corner of the DCU. I'd rather read about Kamandi.

Shaun, Jason, and several other names have variants of how they can be spelled.

I don't see why super villains, places, etc can't also use variants for how their names are spelled using words.

[KingofMadCows]

I think you've been infected with the anti-life equation: loneliness + alienation + fear + despair + self-worth ÷ mockery ÷ condemnation ÷ misunderstanding × guilt × shame × failure × judgment n=y where y=hope and n=folly, love=lies, life=death, self=dark side seek out metron for help.

The universe is not a friendly place. There are times when a civilization must choose between its principles and its survival. Darkseid is there to prey upon the vulnerabilities that are exposed during those moments, slowly degrading the constraints that limit one's potential for evil, with the eventual goal of having them fully embrace ambition and power unbound by morality, empathy, or ethics.

[Arron Jameson]

The universe is not a friendly place. There are times when a civilization must choose between its principles and its survival. Darkseid is there to prey upon the vulnerabilities that are exposed during those moments, slowly degrading the constraints that limit one's potential for evil, with the eventual goal of having them fully embrace ambition and power unbound by morality, empathy, or ethics.

I never really saw this under Kirby's pen, though. Jack seemed to make Darkseid no more evil or ruthless than Doctor Doom, or maybe less so.

In fact, reading through the omnibuses indicate that Darkseid didn't really approve of traditional evil in that he personally and gleefully took part in torture, sadism, or the pain of any person of any age or astatus, with the exception of his sadistic servants, who he disapproved of.

It sort of felt like Kirby contradicted himself* in several instances with no he said Darkseid should act and how Darkseid actually acted. Whenever Kirby talked about Darkseid, he played him up as the most evil thing to exist, but on the actual page he felt like a reluctant user of the Excersizes of villainy or cruelty. I didn't see Darkseid wish or desire people to feel miserable.

I've always wanted to get a copy of the Kirby plotted/scripted superpowers stuff though, considering it was Kirby's last Darkseid work, I wanted to see if Darkseid stepped out of his initial Fourth World personality and acted more evil or sadistic. I hear the superpowers collection is being released in a Kirby Omnibus later this year though.

*for example, Kirby mentioned that Darkseid decided to not use his omega effect on an ally of the forever people (Serifan?) because it was one person, and Darkseid wouldn't waste his talents on hurting one person but would do so to everyone, or on a much wider scale. In the actual comic Darkseid says he won't do it because he can't stomach that kind of cruelty.

[Arron Jameson]

Does anyone know if Peter David and Roger Stern's take on Darkseid are worth reading? I saw a Young Justice trade and a few superman comics at my local bookstore. The guy has tons of old comics but I've looked through everything and these are the only Darkseid appearances I saw (besides Evanier, which despite being thee when Kirby created Darkseid somehow still didn't stop him from doing a rather forgettable job, sadly).

[thewarning]

I never really saw this under Kirby's pen, though. Jack seemed to make Darkseid no more evil or ruthless than Doctor Doom, or maybe less so.

In fact, reading through the omnibuses indicate that Darkseid didn't really approve of traditional evil in that he personally and gleefully took part in torture, sadism, or the pain of any person of any age or astatus, with the exception of his sadistic servants, who he disapproved of.

It sort of felt like Kirby contradicted himself* in several instances with no he said Darkseid should act and how Darkseid actually acted. Whenever Kirby talked about Darkseid, he played him up as the most evil thing to exist, but on the actual page he felt like a reluctant user of the Excersizes of villainy or cruelty. I didn't see Darkseid wish or desire people to feel miserable.

I've always wanted to get a copy of the Kirby plotted/scripted superpowers stuff though, considering it was Kirby's last Darkseid work, I wanted to see if Darkseid stepped out of his initial Fourth World personality and acted more evil or sadistic. I hear the superpowers collection is being released in a Kirby Omnibus later this year though.

*for example, Kirby mentioned that Darkseid decided to not use his omega effect on an ally of the forever people (Serifan?) because it was one person, and Darkseid wouldn't waste his talents on hurting one person but would do so to everyone, or on a much wider scale. In the actual comic Darkseid says he won't do it because he can't stomach that kind of cruelty.

I just see Darkseid as a force of negation. He pursues his own agenda of oppression, but he's highly sophisticated - idiosyncrasies are part of the character.

As you say, I don't think he's any more or less evil than Dr Doom, but he is a lot more negative and prone to rumination and flights of fancy. And he's cosmic, you know, his name is feared across galaxies, etc. I guess there's a mythos around him, the ultimate byproduct being his current characterization in New 52.

[Arron Jameson]

I just see Darkseid as a force of negation. He pursues his own agenda of oppression, but he's highly sophisticated - idiosyncrasies are part of the character.

As you say, I don't think he's any more or less evil than Dr Doom, but he is a lot more negative and prone to rumination and flights of fancy. And he's cosmic, you know, his name is feared across galaxies, etc. I guess there's a mythos around him, the ultimate byproduct being his current characterization in New 52.

Additionally, I might add that while Doom is trying to rule the world in order to make it a utopia, Darkseid seems content with ruination and dishing out despair amongst his nearly infinite number of slaves that would be controlled by the Anti-Life Equation. It just looks like he's not interested in small scale or petty torture like Desaad.

Kirby made the ALE sound like it would be a miserable and traumatizing experience in a few interviews, and that Darkseid wants to control people with that specifically, which would extend to all sentient people, regardless of age or gender. Even though Darkseid was reluctant at the thought of killing young people, that doesn't mean he won't make them miserable, perhaps to the point that they'd find death to be a better alternative.

[Zeeguy91]

I think Darkseid is the most over-rated, dullest major villain in all of the DC Universe. I love Jack Kirby but the New Gods had its day in the 1970's. Desaad, Granny Goodness and Darkseid and the like are no less silly to me than Prez! or Funky Flashman. His name is pronounced "Dark Side." What is this? Masters of the Universe?

I thought one of those Crises a couple years back was supposed to get rid of this boring corner of the DCU. I'd rather read about Kamandi.

Okay, so why do you feel the need to come into the Darkseid respect thread, which was created to pay respect to, who I think, is such a unique and nuanced character (even if there are like a million rip-off versions of him) and post about how much you dislike him??

Nobody forced you to come into this thread.

And is a villainous cosmic god having the name "Darkseid" (although his real name is Uxas, while Darkseid is his "God" name) really any more ridiculous than an Eastern European ruler having the name "Victor von Doom" or an alien tyrant having the name "Sinestro"?

[Mr. Holmes]

I just see Darkseid as a force of negation. He pursues his own agenda of oppression, but he's highly sophisticated - idiosyncrasies are part of the character.

As you say, I don't think he's any more or less evil than Dr Doom, but he is a lot more negative and prone to rumination and flights of fancy. And he's cosmic, you know, his name is feared across galaxies, etc. I guess there's a mythos around him, the ultimate byproduct being his current characterization in New 52.

Yeah the original Darkseid was more subtle about what he was doing. He wasn't blatantly the cosmic Devil like how Morrison writes him. I mean what Morrison does is pretty badass, but it's not as unique or deep as Kirby's Darkseid.