New Avengers #28 *Spoilers*

**marvell2100** · 07-19-2012, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by jackolover

Have you read Civil War, where Tony Stark did the exact same things to heroes in that too? I believe the Avengers would do the same to the X-Men if the shoe was on the other foot.

I seriously doubt that the Avengers would run torture simulations on the X-Men. Power dampeners? Yes, for sure. But this is just beyond belief. And even saying that the Avengers would do the same doesn't justify what the X-Men are doing. Also the Avengers didn't drop a huge tidal wave on a country either.

**Starfish** · 07-19-2012, 05:22 PM

Oh, it seems to get much worse in the upcoming issue of Legacy.

**DiceRoll** · 07-19-2012, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Starfish

Oh, it seems to get much worse in the upcoming issue of Legacy.

What happened?

**Starfish** · 07-19-2012, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by DiceRoll

What happened?

Unless the timeline is way off again, this could take place after New Avengers #28, depicting the permanent holding facilities that Danger spoke of. Basically, Magik brought Limbo to Earth to build a fortress-sized torture chamber somewhere in Russia.

**Lascoden** · 07-19-2012, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Starfish

Unless the timeline is way off again, this could take place after New Avengers #28, depicting the permanent holding facilities that Danger spoke of. Basically, Magik brought Limbo to Earth to build a fortress-sized torture chamber somewhere in Russia.

Anybody else find this hilarious? I mean, this is just freaking weird. Like, why the hell are Hawkeye's arms snakes? The others I get. Drew's is ironic, or something. Cage, guy with super-strength, put something heavy on him so he can't move. Hawkeye gets snake-limbs. WTF? And what the hell is it with Legacy? Everything else has been alright with keeping things pretty grey. Here, it just gets near cartoonishly evil. It's so stupid, because Gage also did AA, which was perfect for presenting an even argument.

**davew128** · 07-19-2012, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by Starfish

Unless the timeline is way off again, this could take place after New Avengers #28, depicting the permanent holding facilities that Danger spoke of. Basically, Magik brought Limbo to Earth to build a fortress-sized torture chamber somewhere in Russia.

Sure looks like torture to me.

**chariset** · 07-19-2012, 06:07 PM

I wonder who else we're going to see in that prison.

Actually, I have no idea who IS a prisoner at this point. Who made it to K'un-Lun?

**PwrdOff** · 07-19-2012, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by chariset

I wonder who else we're going to see in that prison.

Actually, I have no idea who IS a prisoner at this point. Who made it to K'un-Lun?

Don't worry about continuity, it is apparently just a barrier to telling good stories. Especially intra-event continuity, reading the previous issues of a crossover before writing the next one just inhibits creativity.

**chariset** · 07-19-2012, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by PwrdOff

Don't worry about continuity, it is apparently just a barrier to telling good stories. Especially intra-event continuity, reading the previous issues of a crossover before writing the next one just inhibits creativity.

B-but... but.... what if your favorite character isn't an A-lister? What if you like Daredevil, or Mockingbird, or... Doctor Strange...?

**mikekerrIII** · 07-19-2012, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by davew128

I don't recall that Stark sent anyone to a demon dimension or tortured their minds while captive.

Being in the NX drive you mad, and if you read t the ASM 535 tie in you will see a one of Starks victiims begging "Help Me.. Help Me please." or that they intend to keep people there for the rest of their lives, a life sentence without trial in solitary confinement is torture even in a place that doesn't drive you mad just by being there

**celticguy** · 07-19-2012, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by davew128

Well there is plenty of constitutional precedent for locking people up without trial. Habeus corpus even. But there is no justification for experimentation.

there is a new novel out about Lincoln being sued for impeachment due to suspeding Habeus Corpus in the Civil War. The thing with the MU is they tweak the laws to fit their story so how constitutional anything is is murky at best. Although they did allude to Speedball having a trial before he plead out and Cap was walking into his trial when he was "killed"so some trials were happening.

**davew128** · 07-19-2012, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by celticguy

there is a new novel out about Lincoln being sued for impeachment due to suspeding Habeus Corpus in the Civil War. The thing with the MU is they tweak the laws to fit their story so how constitutional anything is is murky at best. Although they did allude to Speedball having a trial before he plead out and Cap was walking into his trial when he was "killed"so some trials were happening.

Well and the whole "no trial" problem doesn't really have legs because not even time went by when trials could have conceivably happened anyway.

**Lascoden** · 07-20-2012, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by davew128

Well and the whole "no trial" problem doesn't really have legs because not even time went by when trials could have conceivably happened anyway.

I believe it was brought up in the comics themselves. I believe they said that they wouldn't be getting trials. That, and 42 remained open throughout the Initiative Era, and I think that policy remained. The parallels to Giitmo were intentional.

**Master of Sound** · 07-20-2012, 12:59 AM

I was soooo looking forward seeing Mockingbird break jail. She was on the preview cover for months and now her coverplace was taken by Spider-Woman. Do you guys thinks writes decided to ditch Mockingbird at the last moment in the story Jail Break and replace her by Spider-Woman?

Danger is great, I like her ways.

**celticguy** · 07-20-2012, 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Lascoden

I believe it was brought up in the comics themselves. I believe they said that they wouldn't be getting trials. That, and 42 remained open throughout the Initiative Era, and I think that policy remained. The parallels to Giitmo were intentional.

Yeah it wasa definitely paralle to Gitmo but per usual all the books did not agree. Iftey did Cap would have been "killed" on the way to 42 not to court.