New Avengers #28 *Spoilers*

[celticguy]

One point on this: what Danger is doing to the Avengers under her control is simply psychological torture. It would constitute such under international law and anyone using these techniques would be subject to possible sanctions. Without commenting on the accuracy or inaccuracy of the various characterizations, there is no excuse for this kind of conduct.

meh they are superheros time to toughen up I don't think it is that bad.

[MrSinister]

One point on this: what Danger is doing to the Avengers under her control is simply psychological torture. It would constitute such under international law and anyone using these techniques would be subject to possible sanctions. Without commenting on the accuracy or inaccuracy of the various characterizations, there is no excuse for this kind of conduct.

it serves them right...they are mutant-kid slayers...if danger lets them free they are gonna kill phoebe and esme and even blindfold

[hysang]

Cage was treated with respect by Ostrander. Ostrander developed the character even more than Mary Jo Duffy did. I'd say he developed him comparable to what Christopher Priest did. Just because Cage is in a "big book," it doesn't make him *more* impressive as a character.

And "writing him as a real person?" What does that mean, exactly? Making him a complete freaking idiot, even though he was taking care of himself for years before he met Jessica Jones? Constantly having him make stupid decisions? Having him consistently lead his team into traps by thinking with his fists instead of his head?

Sure, Cage makes mistakes. That's okay. But he's not an idiot. He's an intelligent guy. He may downplay his smarts to play "man of the people," like Ben Grimm...but just like The Thing, when the chips are down, he's a super-smart guy. Ironic that Bendis also had Ben do something stupid and almost get Mockingbird killed.

We're just going to disagree here. I think Bendis has ruined the character, you think he's made him better. We'll never agree.

That said, I don't hate Jessica Jones, she just doesn't belong in Avengers. I think she'd almost work better in a book like Defenders.

(Am I the only one who would love to see a Patsy Walker/Jessica Jones series?)

[gregyo]

Cage was treated with respect by Ostrander. Ostrander developed the character even more than Mary Jo Duffy did. I'd say he developed him comparable to what Christopher Priest did. Just because Cage is in a "big book," it doesn't make him *more* impressive as a character.

And "writing him as a real person?" What does that mean, exactly? Making him a complete freaking idiot, even though he was taking care of himself for years before he met Jessica Jones? Constantly having him make stupid decisions? Having him consistently lead his team into traps by thinking with his fists instead of his head?

Sure, Cage makes mistakes. That's okay. But he's not an idiot. He's an intelligent guy. He may downplay his smarts to play "man of the people," like Ben Grimm...but just like The Thing, when the chips are down, he's a super-smart guy. Ironic that Bendis also had Ben do something stupid and almost get Mockingbird killed.

We're just going to disagree here. I think Bendis has ruined the character, you think he's made him better. We'll never agree.

That said, I don't hate Jessica Jones, she just doesn't belong in Avengers. I think she'd almost work better in a book like Defenders.

(Am I the only one who would love to see a Patsy Walker/Jessica Jones series?)

Has Bendis written Cage to be an idiot? The Cage-led Avengers are maybe my second favorite line-up ever, with a lot of it being because of him. I feel like you can't be stupid and lead the Avengers.

[hysang]

Refer to the "Naw, I don't want no paychecks from the man!" scene in New Avengers. Ignoring the fact that the checks are coming from Steve Rogers, who Cage respects the hell out of (sure, they're actually coming from the government, but it's STEVE...come on).

Jessica has to remind him that duh, they have a baby and need to buy Pampers, so stop being a schmuck.

Kind of a weird attitude for a former Hero for Hire to have. That and didn't he sign up to lead the Thunderbolts at that point, as well. Was he doing that gratis?

Maybe Cage has taken too many hits to the head. LOL!

[XPac]

Refer to the "Naw, I don't want no paychecks from the man!" scene in New Avengers. Ignoring the fact that the checks are coming from Steve Rogers, who Cage respects the hell out of (sure, they're actually coming from the government, but it's STEVE...come on).

Jessica has to remind him that duh, they have a baby and need to buy Pampers, so stop being a schmuck.

Kind of a weird attitude for a former Hero for Hire to have. That and didn't he sign up to lead the Thunderbolts at that point, as well. Was he doing that gratis?

Maybe Cage has taken too many hits to the head. LOL!

Given the situation I can understand Cages initial feelings.

I think the idea was that he was going to run his own crew apart from the government and Steve. The pay checks sort of muddy that issue, as I would imagine it technically places them under Steves and the governments authority. But I guess as long as the understanding exists that Cage can call his own shots, they're cool taking the money for doing what they were planning on doing anyways. But that's sort of a complicated situation, and it was coming off Civil War and Dark Reign where the very government he's getting this money from wasn't spending the last few months trying to lock up him. So I can sort of see perspective there... just as I can see Jessica's. I thought that was handled fairly all around.

[hysang]

But...but...it's Steve.

I think I'm probably the only one who still trusts Captain America.

[Valeria Kementari]

But...but...it's Steve.

I think I'm probably the only one who still trusts Captain America.

You're not. I ♥ Cap

[Nomads1]

Cage was treated with respect by Ostrander. Ostrander developed the character even more than Mary Jo Duffy did. I'd say he developed him comparable to what Christopher Priest did. Just because Cage is in a "big book," it doesn't make him *more* impressive as a character.

And "writing him as a real person?" What does that mean, exactly? Making him a complete freaking idiot, even though he was taking care of himself for years before he met Jessica Jones? Constantly having him make stupid decisions? Having him consistently lead his team into traps by thinking with his fists instead of his head?

Sure, Cage makes mistakes. That's okay. But he's not an idiot. He's an intelligent guy. He may downplay his smarts to play "man of the people," like Ben Grimm...but just like The Thing, when the chips are down, he's a super-smart guy. Ironic that Bendis also had Ben do something stupid and almost get Mockingbird killed.

We're just going to disagree here. I think Bendis has ruined the character, you think he's made him better. We'll never agree.

That said, I don't hate Jessica Jones, she just doesn't belong in Avengers. I think she'd almost work better in a book like Defenders.

(Am I the only one who would love to see a Patsy Walker/Jessica Jones series?)

I find it impressive that someone who only handled the character for less than 20 issues managed to write the definitive version of the character, adding multiple new layers to him, without contradicting or ignoring anything that came before, while after 8 plus years and well over a hundred issues, Bendis still hasn't managed to show anything different from the bland bi-dimensional angry black man. But then again, John Ostrander has always been an impressive writer. It's a shame health problems have affected his productivity.

Have to say I agree almost verbatim with everything you've writen in the last posts.

Peace

[Corey W]

Thor may be that but Marvel's writers don't treat him that way except in these abstract "well, if Thor's out, we're toast" comments.

Really, when I saw that the Illuminati are slated to appear next issue, it occurred to me that if Reed's involved and with Hickman on writing, will they be either: a) Bringing the Infinity Gauntlet into the equation; or b) using Reed to bring in Adult Franklin Richards (with his Pet Galactus)?

Adult Franklin's a mutant so he might be sympathetic to the X-Men to some extent but he can probably see that this isn't going to end well. In any case, if Adult Franklin were to somehow get involved, I don't think the Phoenix Force could beat him necessarily. That's the trouble I've always had with Cyclops' philosophy. Logically, if you're looking for The mutant Messiah it isn't necessarily Hope, it's Franklin.

Seriously, he went up against a bunch of Celestials and won. The Celestials are at least on the same power level as the Phoenix Force. In that sense, doesn't that qualify Franklin as a more potent force than an unstable entity like the Phoenix? Between Franklin and his Pet Galactus, he could handle the PF pretty easily. That's the problem I have with AvX -- it's epic and World-Spanning and what have you but you have to think that the FF would get involved at some point (probably on Cap's side) -- it's not like they're all that busy (they were last seen with T'Chala in Wakanda but T'Chala's in AvX).

Is it obvious that AVX takes place after Hickman's FF run?

[TonyStark1012]

I knew they had made Bullseye Hawkeye, but when did they make Clint Bullseye? Stealing his card trick wasn't enough?

Peace

Hawkeye has been doing things like this since Solo Avengers. It's not new. When Fabian wrote him he stop a guy buy using a hair wrap and a spoon as a slingshot.

[TonyStark1012]

Why was it evil then and not now? You more than anyone condemed Stark for it. Why roll over for the X-men?

Because in MikeKerr's eyes Tony is the devil. If he does it it's bad. Anyone else does it. He lets it slide.

[Nomads1]

Hawkeye has been doing things like this since Solo Avengers. It's not new. When Fabian wrote him he stop a guy buy using a hair wrap and a spoon as a slingshot.

Yes, that has been pointed out to me. Appearently, I didn't get the memo.

Peace

[TonyStark1012]

Yes, that has been pointed out to me. Appearently, I didn't get the memo.

Peace

In the ultimate universe they really take it up a notch though. Especially with using his fingernails as a weapon.

[LeonardEugenius]

Luke Cage is a caricature and a joke. He is a walking stereotype. I find his character offensive.