The Mighty, Mighty Infinite Consolidated One-Stop New 52 Complaint Thread

[the4thpip]

Not really though. I don't even think reading a few issues is enough to know where the series is going. Some books are slow burning, meaning that it takes at least a good few to ascertain where exactly they're going. Not to mention, that the previews give you small snippets that are not only truncated, but out of context as well.

Yes, really. Look at how different Wonder Woman is. Doesn't take reading the first 4 trades to realize how dramatically different that is from the visions of the past seven decades.

[xtopgunx]

Despite it's success DC is still taking heat form a lot of people about the reebot and I want to know what about is so bad that some people are so angry

It's a double-sided coin. On one hand, it's virtually impossible to released 52 titles, and all of them just be astounding critical and commercial success'. Secondly, people have different tastes. Especially in the comic book community, some people fall in love with a certain character, era or storyline. You'll never be able to convince them that anything else is better.


I personally wouldn't be reading DC books if it wasn't for New 52, so maybe even I'm a little bias. Clearly the brand is doing better than ever considering Marvel launched Marvel NOW! the next year.

[sunofdarkchild]

It's a double-sided coin. On one hand, it's virtually impossible to released 52 titles, and all of them just be astounding critical and commercial success'. Secondly, people have different tastes. Especially in the comic book community, some people fall in love with a certain character, era or storyline. You'll never be able to convince them that anything else is better.


I personally wouldn't be reading DC books if it wasn't for New 52, so maybe even I'm a little bias. Clearly the brand is doing better than ever considering Marvel launched Marvel NOW! the next year.

Lol. DC managed to bring its sales up to about 2005 levels. They're still much lower than they were at any point before the 21st century, and standards for what sells well have fallen dramatically so that a well selling book today would have been considered a failure a couple of decades ago.

And while we'll never know exactly what went on in the decision making process, Marvel had AVX planned since before the reboot, and no one knew whether the reboot would be any success until afterwards.

[fishbonex]

Lol. DC managed to bring its sales up to about 2005 levels. They're still much lower than they were at any point before the 21st century, and standards for what sells well have fallen dramatically so that a well selling book today would have been considered a failure a couple of decades ago.

And while we'll never know exactly what went on in the decision making process, Marvel had AVX planned since before the reboot, and no one knew whether the reboot would be any success until afterwards.

So you agree that the reboot is a huge success, brought in new readers and after a year of sales beating Marvel, Marvel responded with Marvel NOW! to try to grab back the lead.

[the4thpip]

So you agree that the reboot is a huge success, brought in new readers and after a year of sales beating Marvel, Marvel responded with Marvel NOW! to try to grab back the lead.

But Marvel has been doing big events and reboots for years now with varying degrees of success. How is Marvel Now! all that different from the Heroic Age recently? And for those of us old enough to drive, Heroes Reborn and the much superior Heroes Return a year or so later? I would have been surprised if Marvel had not done some kind of relaunch any month now anyway.

[fishbonex]

The difference is the relaunch of every title at #1, each with a new direction/jumping on point. All of their previous events lacked this, until DC pulls the trigger line wide to great success a year ago and beats Marvel soundly in market share and sales since.

[the4thpip]

The difference is the relaunch of every title at #1, each with a new direction/jumping on point. All of their previous events lacked this, until DC pulls the trigger line wide to great success a year ago and beats Marvel soundly in market share and sales since.

Not every title is relaunching with a #1. Maybe a higher percentage than did with Heroic Age. But you are just factually wrong on this one.

Several X-Men books are keeping their numbering at least for a while, Journey Into Mystery, Red She-Hulk, Daredevil...

[Zeeguy91]

Yes, really. Look at how different Wonder Woman is. Doesn't take reading the first 4 trades to realize how dramatically different that is from the visions of the past seven decades.

Um...except no. Its not. There are plenty of times where I look at a preview for an issue and come to a conclusion about the issue that ends up being wrong when I actually read it. That's what previews are supposed to do: get us guessing about what's going to happen. Then, its the writer's job to go: "Uh, no. You were all wrong."

And, Wonder Woman really isn't that different. Besides from the slight retcon to her origin (and I use that word because for her whole life, she thought she was made of clay), nothing is much different about her. The world around her has changed somewhat, but her personality has pretty remained the same way it always was. Besides, there's always been a problem with the character in her portrayal. One writer makes her out to be Mother Teresa with a tiara and a lasso, while another makes her out to be a battle-ready warrior who snaps Maxwell Lord's neck. Azzarello, on the other hand, has found a way to balance those aspects in a way that doesn't feel forced. I'd say he's the best thing for Wonder Woman in a long while.

[the4thpip]

Um...except no. Its not. There are plenty of times where I look at a preview for an issue and come to a conclusion about the issue that ends up being wrong when I actually read it. That's what previews are supposed to do: get us guessing about what's going to happen. Then, its the writer's job to go: "Uh, no. You were all wrong."

And, Wonder Woman really isn't that different. Besides from the slight retcon to her origin (and I use that word because for her whole life, she thought she was made of clay), nothing is much different about her. The world around her has changed somewhat, but her personality has pretty remained the same way it always was. Besides, there's always been a problem with the character in her portrayal. One writer makes her out to be Mother Teresa with a tiara and a lasso, while another makes her out to be a battle-ready warrior who snaps Maxwell Lord's neck. Azzarello, on the other hand, has found a way to balance those aspects in a way that doesn't feel forced. I'd say he's the best thing for Wonder Woman in a long while.

Well, we already established that readers who never liked Wonder Woman in the past now like her. But that proves my point more than yours.

And I said previews and reviews, not just previews.

[sunofdarkchild]

So you agree that the reboot is a huge success, brought in new readers and after a year of sales beating Marvel, Marvel responded with Marvel NOW! to try to grab back the lead.

Huge success? To bring readership back to what it was only a few years ago, which was itself a lowpoint at the time, is not a huge success unless you have very low standards for success. Did it bring in some new readers? Yes. How many? Not that much if sales are still lower than they were in the 90s. And sales are only going to continue to decline from where they are now until the next huge line wide DC event, at which point this'll start all over again.

And as has been said. Marvel has these events and renumberings all the time. House of M. Civil War. Secret Invasion. Heroic Age. Fear Itself. AVX. Marvel Now! is nothing new.

[fishbonex]

Not every title is relaunching with a #1. Maybe a higher percentage than did with Heroic Age. But you are just factually wrong on this one.

Several X-Men books are keeping their numbering at least for a while, Journey Into Mystery, Red She-Hulk, Daredevil...

You are correct, they are only launching 27 books at #1.

[tony ingram]

The difference is the relaunch of every title at #1, each with a new direction/jumping on point. All of their previous events lacked this, until DC pulls the trigger line wide to great success a year ago and beats Marvel soundly in market share and sales since.

Every title? Nope, not even close. And you're being somewhat disingenuous on the market share part, too.

[GarageGlamorous]

I'm usually pretty positive about the Nu52, but it's really starting to wear thin on me.

The fact that they're ignoring 90% of the past 30 years, the fact that a lot of characters have been over-simplified and made almost two-dimensional, the fact that they're treating their established talent like crap and seeming to form some cliquey "in" crowd of writers to shuffle around books. It's all just...tiring. If Snyder and Morrison weren't knocking it out of the park, I'd be considering trying Marvel NOW for a spell. With Morrison leaving within the next six months or so, I'm thinking I might just drop Inc (if it continues, which it will) and Action to take my business elsewhere.

The first year was so promising, too. Sigh. It feels like everything's slowly falling apart.

[Buried Alien]

I don't like where this is headed; closed for cleanup and until people cool off.

Don't continue this in a new thread; find something different to talk about for now.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Moderator Alive!)

[Wild_Child]

For a second, I thought this thread was locked for good.