Worlds' Finest #3 Discussion.

[ArnoldoAAD]

As I said, the time is meaningless. The four years don't matter any more than how many Robins they've been in five years or how long Bruce and Clark have been heroes, those are just details that are only problems for continuity junkies.

ok lets forget about it, lets say they were in a comma for 4 years and then wake up on issue 1
what is left, is just not very good
Powergirl has a machine to go back to E2 but then a giant robot that i will call Gilligan for comedic purposes destroys it
and in 3 issues we only have flashbacks of them taking vacations while they fight Gilligan

the pacing is way too slow, it was the same on the Huntress mini

I don't even know what that last statement you made even means or how it applies to what I said, but i'll say it again; the repetition of her apathetic view of the world is simple foreshadowing of the character she is to become. It's there to provide contrast for future stories so you can clearly see the character progression, and I don't see how that's a hard concept to grasp.

you said that this attitude of "this isnt my earth" isnt going to stick and is just an starting point for what will eventually lead to "I do care about this Earth" and make it her home and etc

my point is that, the attitude is really not more important than her actions

she befriended Michael Holt for 2 years and then stab him in the back for her personal benefit

thats not tied to her attitude, is who she is now, and I dont see this person turning into what you are talking about in an organic way

[Sacred Knight]

Wait, are you honestly saying that saving the life of a man from a burning jet means nothing because she broke a guy's heart? I'm sorry but that's ones of the most warped statements I've read in a while. Yes she initiated a relationship with Michael for his work (with nothing textual as far as I know backing up the idea she didn't grow to genuinely care for him at all regardless). Yes it was self-serving. But to act like she's irredeemable for it is way, way too far. Maybe you're just being purposely facetious, but if not you have some weird standards if you truly believe she's beyond growing organically into a hero who cares for this new world she initiated a relationship with one man for the sake of a way to get home. If we're supposed to give her absolutely no shot at growing into an inspirational hero for that, then might as well stop calling everyone superheroes because no character doesn't have at least one skeleton in their closest.

[thwhtGuardian]

ok lets forget about it, lets say they were in a comma for 4 years and then wake up on issue 1
what is left, is just not very good
Powergirl has a machine to go back to E2 but then a giant robot that i will call Gilligan for comedic purposes destroys it
and in 3 issues we only have flashbacks of them taking vacations while they fight Gilligan

the pacing is way too slow, it was the same on the Huntress mini



you said that this attitude of "this isnt my earth" isnt going to stick and is just an starting point for what will eventually lead to "I do care about this Earth" and make it her home and etc

my point is that, the attitude is really not more important than her actions

she befriended Michael Holt for 2 years and then stab him in the back for her personal benefit

thats not tied to her attitude, is who she is now, and I dont see this person turning into what you are talking about in an organic way

For all intents and purposes these are brand new characters so the flash backs serve to build characterization, and really they do so incredibly well.

Again I really don't understand what you're trying to say, her personality and her actions are one thing and they will change as she grows as a character and that's the whole thrust of story so it's a given that it will happen.There are a million different ways a character could organically go from not caring for Earth to feeling at home on Earth, the fact that you personally can't imagine that development is not a failing of the story but rather a failing of your imagination.

[ArnoldoAAD]

Wait, are you honestly saying that saving the life of a man from a burning jet means nothing because she broke a guy's heart?

the guy in the jet was just besides her, it basically almost , and once again, he came out of nowhere, im honestly confuse from where this plane came from
I dont really knwo why this guy should count in contrast to all of the other ppl who she didnt help in those 4 years she was here

and it was more than breaking Michael's heart, it was cold calculative attempt to use him and she succeed

I'm sorry but that's ones of the most warped statements I've read in a while. Yes she initiated a relationship with Michael for his work (with nothing textual as far as I know backing up the idea she didn't grow to genuinely care for him at all regardless). Yes it was self-serving. But to act like she's irredeemable for it is way, way too far.

I think you are resting it importance, I dont think it makes her irredeemable but it doesnt make her look good at all and is way more than just an "I dont care" attitude

and lack of evidence is not evidence of anything, the fact that there is nothing textual that shows that she didnt grew feelings from him doesnt matter at all, since equally there is also no evidence that she did grew feeling for him, but she still stole her investigations and with the intentions of doing that from the start

[thwhtGuardian]

the guy in the jet was just besides her, it basically almost , and once again, he came out of nowhere, im honestly confuse from where this plane came from
I dont really knwo why this guy should count in contrast to all of the other ppl who she didnt help in those 4 years she was here

and it was more than breaking Michael's heart, it was cold calculative attempt to use him and she succeed




I think you are resting it importance, I dont think it makes her irredeemable but it doesnt make her look good at all and is way more than just an "I dont care" attitude

and lack of evidence is not evidence of anything, the fact that there is nothing textual that shows that she didnt grew feelings from him doesnt matter at all, since equally there is also no evidence that she did grew feeling for him, but she still stole her investigations and with the intentions of doing that from the start

The jet was part of the force trying to stop the energy monster, that seemed pretty clear to me.

It cuts both ways, there is also a lack of evidence that her feelings for Holt were totally fake either, that's your own interpretation not a fact. Personally, I enjoy emotionally complex characters, so I have no problem believing that her intentions changed through out her relationship with Holt rather than your one dimensional view.

But really, that's neither here nor there because in this particular story we haven't reached the relationship with Holt so we haven't seen her thoughts on the matter, so again i'd much rather let the story play out naturally than judge it based on preconceived notions.

[ArnoldoAAD]

For all intents and purposes these are brand new characters so the flash backs serve to build characterization, and really they do so incredibly well.

Again I really don't understand what you're trying to say, her personality and her actions are one thing and they will change as she grows as a character and that's the whole thrust of story so it's a given that it will happen.

her actions will change as she grows as a character, meaning what?, she will no longer use men to befriend them and steal their stuff
she will no longer abuse her powers for personal gain
will stop not caring about ppl and use her power for something that doesnt involve going home

we are talking about almost 180 switch her, lets say 170

There are a million different ways a character could organically go from not caring for Earth to feeling at home on Earth, the fact that you personally can't imagine that development is not a failing of the story but rather a failing of your imagination.

HEY! careful there , im honestly keeping a civil conversation with you and Sacred Knight here, no need to be rude

but the way I see
she is way, Way more likely to turn into a supervillain than actually accepting this as home

[Sacred Knight]

Not sure what it matters where the plane came from. She saved a guy's life. Does Superman lose points for saving lives when accidents occurr right beside him?


And I'm not devaluing the Mr. Terrific situation at all. I never said her motivations here weren't rather cold. They were. I've only ever argued that they weren't intentionally malicious. The intentions were to send her and her friend home...at face value hardly terrible. But putting the semantics aside, she did Michael wrong, absolutely. I just don't buy for one second that it hurts her character to the point that it makes it difficult to portray her as a hero, or that what she did makes it easier to turn her into a villain. I find those notions completely ridiculous. Batman's done worse in his past and he's a hero through and through. What she did wasn't right toward Michael; it doesn't hinder her ability to grow into a hero on par with the Karen of old however.

[ArnoldoAAD]

The jet was part of the force trying to stop the energy monster, that seemed pretty clear to me.

maybe is cause they were inside a building then they went outside, i didnt saw the planes, but whatever

It cuts both ways, there is also a lack of evidence that her feelings for Holt were totally fake either, that's your own interpretation not a fact.

thats what SK said, and this basically ends up translading into "we have no evidence that she care or didnt care of Michael"

but im basing my interpretation only in what we have, which is, the beginning of the relationship with hie, where she intends that she will seduce and befriend him only for the information that he has
and the end of their relationship where she finally steals such information after 2 years of posing as his friend

whats the logical conclusion?

Personally, I enjoy emotionally complex characters, so I have no problem believing that her intentions changed through out her relationship with Holt rather than your one dimensional view.

thats your own interpretation too!

But really, that's neither here nor there because in this particular story we haven't reached the relationship with Holt so we haven't seen her thoughts on the matter, so again i'd much rather let the story play out naturally than judge it based on preconceived notions.

I dont think it will ever play out since Michael is now Ironically in E2

[KnightErrantJR]

Karen's treatment of Micheal isn't a deal breaker for me by any means. She has been kind of flighty and disconnected, but that's part of who she is this time around. I've seen worse traits in heroes before, and it will be interested to see if she is intentionally moved beyond this flaw and how it plays out. I also think there is a bit of a meta-reason for it, in that, I'm not 100% certain that when she first showed up in Mister Terrific that this World's Finest reveal was completely planned out. I could be wrong.

[ArnoldoAAD]

Not sure what it matters where the plane came from. She saved a guy's life. Does Superman lose points for saving lives when accidents occurr right beside him?

the guy he saved for me is just like the kitty she saves in the flashback, is ultimately pointless compared compared with the big picture

And I'm not devaluing the Mr. Terrific situation at all. I never said her motivations here weren't rather cold. They were. I've only ever argued that they weren't intentionally malicious. The intentions were to send her and her friend home...at face value hardly terrible. But putting the semantics aside, she did Michael wrong, absolutely. I just don't buy for one second that it hurts her character to the point that it makes it difficult to portray her as a hero, or that what she did makes it easier to turn her into a villain. I find those notions completely ridiculous. Batman's done worse in his past and he's a hero through and through. What she did wasn't right toward Michael; it doesn't hinder her ability to grow into a hero on par with the Karen of old however.

Malice means more than doing this to hurt another person, is about not caring about that person's feelings and thats the case
is extremely cold and completely off character from what old one was, and she still have not felt sorry for this

and what I find worst of this is that if she hadnt done this and actually told Michael the truth, she and Hel would already be at home, she never opted for that choice cause she never cared about him
and this is a lesson that she will never learn cause there is no way she can find out that Michael went to E2

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

but, thats exactly the problem

No, that's not a problem. It's myopic, but it's not a problem.

[FIFTY-TWO (52)]

still, she is constantly abusing her powers for personal gain and using the "locals" as she pleases

you dont see superman or supergirl doing that and they arent locals either

But she's not Superman or Supergirl.

[ArnoldoAAD]

But she's not Superman or Supergirl.

she is a supergirl

[Jadenewt]

she is a supergirl

No she WAS an alternate dimensions Supergirl.. And we don't really know how she operated on that planet.. You are assuming she was like our Supergirl but that easily might not have been the case.

[ArnoldoAAD]

No she WAS an alternate dimensions Supergirl.. And we don't really know how she operated on that planet.. You are assuming she was like our Supergirl but that easily might not have been the case.

so she is a very selfish Supergirl who doesnt care about the planet, is that the point?