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  1. #31
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan2099 View Post
    He used to be a classic complex character but the guy we have now has almost nothing in common with the old Norman and he's about as shallow and generically evil as Carnage ever was.
    Yep. Still holding out hope that the post-Revelations Norman is a clone...
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiceRoll View Post
    ...With a Sonic Batarang or some kind of gadget, right?
    Nope, it was him being deadly afraid of the Joker the thing that gave Batman the upper hand (And nope, I'm not making this up).


    Quote Originally Posted by David Walton View Post
    Yep. Still holding out hope that the post-Revelations Norman is a clone...
    Ha! I wish. But I'm afraid in won't ever happen. I would be pretty happy if the Real Clone Saga (or whatever that miniseries was called) was the new canon. Unfortunately, the marriage was intact in it, so obviously, it really can't replace the Clone Saga. What a shame.


    As for the question of this thread, I think Carnage was overexposed at first and that it gave him a reputation of being overexposed, even if nowadays that isn't true. Kind of like how Hank Pym has a wife beater stigma even if he reformed shortly after that.

  3. #33
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
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    I think one problem Carnage has is that writers aren't particularly interested in the character, so he'll be put in peripheral stories. And when he's in peripheral stories, he'll seem overexposed, even if that's the only place you can find the character.
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  4. #34
    Loose mongoose Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max_Power View Post
    Nope, it was him being deadly afraid of the Joker the thing that gave Batman the upper hand (And nope, I'm not making this up).
    If I remember correctly, it was because he was just generally scared and immature, something which he hid with his violence, which allowed Batman to beat him. The way it was pulled off in the comic was really crappy.

    As for the question of this thread, I think Carnage was overexposed at first and that it gave him a reputation of being overexposed, even if nowadays that isn't true. Kind of like how Hank Pym has a wife beater stigma even if he reformed shortly after that.
    True, perceptions are often more influential than reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiceRoll View Post
    ...With a Sonic Batarang or some kind of gadget, right?
    Nope, and that would have made alot more sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    I think one problem Carnage has is that writers aren't particularly interested in the character, so he'll be put in peripheral stories. And when he's in peripheral stories, he'll seem overexposed, even if that's the only place you can find the character.
    Good point. I think one way to fix this is to have the Carnage symbiote bond with someone who is just as evil as Kasady but a far more complex character with varied goals; maybe some kind of terrorist or religious extremist.
    Empty winds scrape on the soul never stop to realize/Animal whisperings intoxicate the night
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  5. #35
    S.P.E.C.T.R.E. destro's Avatar
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    Yeah, a new more interesting human host for Carnage is the best thing to do. Unless they do that, I'll have the join the "no more, no more please" gang.
    Life looks better in black and white.

  6. #36
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    I quite like Venom and Carnage. I've noticed it's an age thing. I grew up in the 90s, but I've noticed that it's usually the people who grew up in the 80s or earlier who hate the symbiotes.

    I always found Venom and Carnage visually striking. I liked the fact that Venom had the same powers as Spider-Man, I feel like Venom is what would have happened if Spider-Man decided to seek vengeance instead of justice after Uncle Ben died. As for Carnage, I see him as Spider-Man's version of the Joker, he's a psychopathic killer who kills just because he can and thinks it's fun. Like the Joker in the Dark Knight, I see him as a kind of nihilistic terrorist, and it's the symbiote that let's him make the leap from serial killer to terrorist.

    I also really like the alien origins of the Symbiotes. I know in the standard universe the black symbiote came from a machine in Secret Wars, but I really like the alien origin from the cartoons. In the 90s cartoon Venom talks about how the symbiote offered Peter knowledge and experience spanning hundreds of planets, and he rejected it. Are there any stories in the comics that emphasize or deal with the alien aspects of the symbiotes?

    I also love the Maximum Carnage video game. I wish that game would get an HD rerelease.

  7. #37
    Loose mongoose Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich eater View Post
    I quite like Venom and Carnage. I've noticed it's an age thing. I grew up in the 90s, but I've noticed that it's usually the people who grew up in the 80s or earlier who hate the symbiotes.

    I always found Venom and Carnage visually striking. I liked the fact that Venom had the same powers as Spider-Man, I feel like Venom is what would have happened if Spider-Man decided to seek vengeance instead of justice after Uncle Ben died. As for Carnage, I see him as Spider-Man's version of the Joker, he's a psychopathic killer who kills just because he can and thinks it's fun. Like the Joker in the Dark Knight, I see him as a kind of nihilistic terrorist, and it's the symbiote that let's him make the leap from serial killer to terrorist.

    I also really like the alien origins of the Symbiotes. I know in the standard universe the black symbiote came from a machine in Secret Wars, but I really like the alien origin from the cartoons. In the 90s cartoon Venom talks about how the symbiote offered Peter knowledge and experience spanning hundreds of planets, and he rejected it. Are there any stories in the comics that emphasize or deal with the alien aspects of the symbiotes?

    I also love the Maximum Carnage video game. I wish that game would get an HD rerelease.
    Planet of the Symbiotes, the Carnage Cosmic story, and Venom vs. Carnage deal with the origins of the symbiotes, but on the whole, their origins haven't been explored, which is a shame since they could really be brought into the cosmic side of the MU. The black suit was actually in that machine since it had been deemed insane by other symbiote since it wanted to bond with its host instead of just dominating it. I wouldn't be surprised if the symbiotes were distantly related to the Brood.
    Empty winds scrape on the soul never stop to realize/Animal whisperings intoxicate the night
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  8. #38
    Senior Member FirestormTheNuclearMan's Avatar
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    Carnage still has the problem of being a one dimensional super villain that kills.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venomous Mask View Post
    Planet of the Symbiotes, the Carnage Cosmic story, and Venom vs. Carnage deal with the origins of the symbiotes, but on the whole, their origins haven't been explored, which is a shame since they could really be brought into the cosmic side of the MU. The black suit was actually in that machine since it had been deemed insane by other symbiote since it wanted to bond with its host instead of just dominating it. I wouldn't be surprised if the symbiotes were distantly related to the Brood.
    I will definitely check those stories out at some point. I hope that they are all available in trades.

    I like the idea of a Brood connection, they could have evolved on the same planet and be distantly related. I also think it would be cool if there was a symbiote invasion; kind of like how they replicated and infected New York City in the Web of Shadows video game.
    Last edited by sandwich eater; 07-05-2012 at 10:54 PM.

  10. #40
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    I think what makes carnage overexposed is that he has only been used one way
    Take ock for example. He can be
    - The rampaging villian
    - The lackey villian
    - The mastermind
    - the sympathetic villian
    - even the joke villian

    Carnage has one characterization. The serial killer that makes jokes. That becomes stale and makes the reader sick of him.

  11. #41
    S.P.E.C.T.R.E. destro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandwich eater View Post
    I quite like Venom and Carnage. I've noticed it's an age thing. I grew up in the 90s, but I've noticed that it's usually the people who grew up in the 80s or earlier who hate the symbiotes.

    I always found Venom and Carnage visually striking. I liked the fact that Venom had the same powers as Spider-Man, I feel like Venom is what would have happened if Spider-Man decided to seek vengeance instead of justice after Uncle Ben died. As for Carnage, I see him as Spider-Man's version of the Joker, he's a psychopathic killer who kills just because he can and thinks it's fun. Like the Joker in the Dark Knight, I see him as a kind of nihilistic terrorist, and it's the symbiote that let's him make the leap from serial killer to terrorist.

    I also really like the alien origins of the Symbiotes. I know in the standard universe the black symbiote came from a machine in Secret Wars, but I really like the alien origin from the cartoons. In the 90s cartoon Venom talks about how the symbiote offered Peter knowledge and experience spanning hundreds of planets, and he rejected it. Are there any stories in the comics that emphasize or deal with the alien aspects of the symbiotes?

    I also love the Maximum Carnage video game. I wish that game would get an HD rerelease.
    Yup, definitely an age thing. Just like for me being a kid in the 80s, the Hobgoblin was the ultimate villain I compare every other against. Even though I'm not much of a Venom or Carnage fan, I will agree with you that they are visually striking.

    They seem to have finally (at least for me) hit on an interesting direction for Venom to go in. I'd like to see Carnage remain a villain and a twisted and sadistic villain as well...but I think Casady has gone as far as he can go as a character...which honestly wasn't too far. Maybe someone with a bit more depth like a Hannibal Lector type would be a good direction for Carnage.
    Life looks better in black and white.

  12. #42
    Loose mongoose Venomous Mask's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by destro View Post
    Maybe someone with a bit more depth like a Hannibal Lector type would be a good direction for Carnage.
    I think a crazed, Taliban-like religious extremist would make a good host. He could have more motivations and depth, but be just as bloodthirsty as Kasady, possibly more.
    Empty winds scrape on the soul never stop to realize/Animal whisperings intoxicate the night
    Hypnotize the desperate slow motionlight/Wash away into the rain
    Blood, milk and sky....

  13. #43
    Senior Member Hambone's Avatar
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    Actually, I thought Carnage was at his most interesting in that issue where he had lost his symbiote and just painted himself red and attacked people with a knife.

  14. #44
    Gamebreaker Wellman's Avatar
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    The problem with Carnage is that he is too much of threat to be used often and not suffer decay and he honestly, shouldn't be a Spider-Man villain.

    Spider-Man's no kill policy leaves him open to blame for the average 4 deaths that occur every time Carnage gets lose because no one put him down or as Spider-Man did in the last Carnage mini, stopped someone from even trying.

    Carnage works great as a force of nature type that others will need team up to take down, after he makes a bloody mess of things and they have to clean up. Spidey alone isn't a match anymore and would be irresponsible of him to handle unless Marvel reduces the abilities of the symbiote.

  15. #45
    ❤ Walking with thee ❤ Ian Pressman's Avatar
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    Carnage's first appearance was a classic. He was creepy and different. Maximum Carnage took away a lot of his value by giving him a 'super-team' of serial killers and tying to give him a Charles Manson vibe that didn't connect, and dragging him into the clone storyline did nothing for him. Eventually, Cassidey just became a poster-boy for the backlash against obnoxious 90's grim/dark.
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