Is Captain America the Marvel version of Batman?

[thirdfalcon]

I'd say Cap, Tony, and Thor all have things that they share with Batman Superman, and even Wonder Woman. Cap is a (relative) bad ass normal like Batman wrapped in Superman's imagery and symbolism. Tony is more like what Bruce Wayne might be like without the Batman persona but still a super hero. And Thor has a similar role to Superman as the most bad ass flying brick champion archetype with a aesthetic and mind set more similar to Wonder Woman.

Both sets share a similar role in their respective universes, but I think when looking at all three Superman/Cap (Ego, Hero, Leader), Tony/Batman (Superego, Smart guy, bank) and Wonder Woman/Thor (id, big guy, Mystical warrior) works best.

DC goes like

Superman hero

Batman co-lancer/ Smart guy

Wonder Woman co-lancer/big guy

After that there's no one at DC that's on the same level as those three but i'd say Martian Manhunter is the Chick, and Green lantern and Aquaman are both sixth rangers.



Marvel

Cap Hero

Ironman co-lancer/smart guy

Thor co-lancer/big guy

Hulk big guy/smart guy (as Bruce Banner

Spider-Man Chick/Bumblebee if you want to put Janet or Storm or whoever here. I prefer Susan Storm as a team mom but there is nothing close to a consensus

Wolverine Sixth Ranger

[Jim Thompson]

So, for you, just being an "average Joe" is purely physical? Well, even if that is your standard, Rogers physically, without the Super Soldier serum, isn't even up to the physical standard of an "average Joe". It's why the Army wouldn't accept him.

And in that recent story arc you refer to, he was still contributing, just not physically.

[TomServoFan]

Batboy is nothing more than a rip-off of Orson Welles "The Shadow." Never so much more now as ever before...so to speak.

wells Bats is influenced by Shadow, Zorro and Sherlock Holmes obviously according to Bob Kane and Bill Finger.

Rogers is not Batman. There is no true Marvel Batman, deliberately so. Marvel has different underpinnings that are antithetical to a true Batman equivalent.

Iron Man is sort of Marvel's Batman, but has a consistent tendency towards the sort of Tower of Babel behavior that in Batman is treated as an aberration, a sign that he has briefly and shockingly lost his way. With Iron Man this sort of tendency to think of even teammates as a collection of powers that must be guarded against, the sort of cold chesslike mindset implicit in the Tower of Babel story, is treated not as an aberration, but as an inevitable flaw of being a rich super-genius. Stark is a rich scientist, he's not an average joe, so he must be soulless is what the Marvel mindset is implicitly saying.

Captain America is sort of Marvel's Batman, but is much more blue collar, with more muscle, less brains, less money, and just a flavor to him that displays Marvel's tendency towards glorifying the average joe. Captain America is basically an average joe treated as though average joeness was the greatest weapon in the universe. That's why he is far more likely to win in a manner that is far more like Hulk than Batman, despite lacking much power on paper.

Daredevil is sort of Marvel's Batman, but he's poor, and there is constant emphasis on how his father was a dirt-poor boxer and he owes much of who he is to that upbringing.

It is telling that the more obvious, purer Batman analogues in Marvel are treated poorly. Moonknight is a third stringer, and Black Panther mostly just stands around spouting fortune cookie wisdom. Marvel is just not the place for Batman. It's core philosophy is deeply at odds with having a true Batman equivalent.

Oh yes i forgot to mention another Batman-esque Marvel character is Punisher.

[mikekerrIII]

What are you basing that on? Cap is shown quite often with a better than average understanding of science -- he's just not at Tony Stark or Reed Richards levels of expertise (but who really is). He's often had to use deductive skills in order to be able to proceed or get ahead of someone to stop them from executing a plan.

Do you have examples where you think he was "completely out of his depth"?

Did you read AVX 7, in that he is glorifying in his ignorance and talking down to folks that are not.

In this Even he is completely out of his depth since he still hasn't realized he has no clue what the thing he is fighting even is.

His conversation with Cyke in the first book highlighted his ignorance of the PF and of the mutants plight.

[mikekerrIII]

There's nothing "average" about Steve Rogers.

I hope not if torturers are the average we are in real trouble,

[Wellman]

Marvel is loaded with potential Batman analogs.


Iron Man and Captain America are the two closest based off popularity and Avenger status. But you have to throw in Daredevil, Nighthawk and Moon Knight off the top of my head, probably more as well.

[Jim Thompson]

Did you read AVX 7, in that he is glorifying in his ignorance and talking down to folks that are not.

In this Even he is completely out of his depth since he still hasn't realized he has no clue what the thing he is fighting even is.

His conversation with Cyke in the first book highlighted his ignorance of the PF and of the mutants plight.

I'm only picking up Captain America from Marvel, and this summation of how the character is being used in other series is telling me that might be a smart decision on my part. What you've described seems completely out of keeping with the nature of Captain America's/Steve Rogers character.

[Jim Thompson]

I hope not if torturers are the average we are in real trouble,

Steve Rogers has the courage of his convictions. That's not, in my experience, average.

[mikekerrIII]

I'm only picking up Captain America from Marvel, and this summation of how the character is being used in other series is telling me that might be a smart decision on my part. What you've described seems completely out of keeping with the nature of Captain America's/Steve Rogers character.

I gather you have not heard about SA#21 where he does an imitation of a gutless Jack Bauer?

[mikekerrIII]

Steve Rogers has the courage of his convictions. That's not, in my experience, average.

SA#21 proves that that is no longer the case

[Jim Thompson]

I gather you have not heard about SA#21 where he does an imitation of a gutless Jack Bauer?

Nope, and it sounds like that worked out well for me.

[Jim Thompson]

SA#21 proves that that is no longer the case

Sounds as though all Secret Avengers #21 proves is that Marvel has lost the thread on what one of their characters is all about.

[David Walton]

None of these events have done Cap any favors lately.

I miss the days when Cap's mere presence meant heroes were on their best behavior. "With a voice that could command a god...and does!"

[Jim Thompson]

None of these events have done Cap any favors lately.

I miss the days when Cap's mere presence meant heroes were on their best behavior. "With a voice that could command a god...and does!"