Data with a phaser vs. The Balrog

[Dalak]

EDIT: Sorry, Dalak. I massively screwed up and edited your post rather than replying. *pained laughter* Anyway, I quoted enough of it so that we can see what you were saying in my response.

Once in a blue moon moderator screwup.

[Sharpandpointies]

Seriously though, he could roll under it, hop over it, or dodge to the side if it comes straight down on him. That whip didn't see quite so fast in the movies (A gripe of mine, Gandalf could have dodged the thing had he seen it IMO)

I'm not talking about the movies. The whip in the book was a big flaming whip, so it's going to be moving a normal speeds for a giant, flaming whip. If the space is so enclosed the Balrog can't swing, for example, left-right at waist level, then Data isn't going to be able to do much dodging side to side EITHER. :)

Anyway, it's not a guaranteed win for the Balrog, but it's a method it can use to attack an area.

As long as it's not intangible, considering the feats, enough phaser shots should kill it. It disintegrates rock, flesh, and most metals using a 'nadion particle beam'. Unless the Balrog is special Trek alloy, or can destroy the phaser before it has taken enough damage, it should be capable of killing it. And if it starts taking too long it can be set to overload and used grenade-style but that would take down the cave and Data with it IMO. As long as it doesn't require Magic to kill it should fall to a phaser.

Data has survived massive electrical jolts, a few long falls, and he's still afraid of phasers after all.

Can it absorb heat/energy into itself? If so then it might just gain power from the phaser, but it didn't look that way to me in what I've seen/read.

No clue. Doesn't matter - it has a physical form, the phaser should be able to do SOMETHING to it.

[Dalak]

I'm not talking about the movies. The whip in the book was a big flaming whip, so it's going to be moving a normal speeds for a giant, flaming whip. If the space is so enclosed the Balrog can't swing, for example, left-right at waist level, then Data isn't going to be able to do much dodging side to side EITHER. :)

Anyway, it's not a guaranteed win for the Balrog, but it's a method it can use to attack an area.

I honestly thought they were fighting back in the caves of Moria, rechecked the OP and "Underground crevice" so no clue as to if it's too narrow for it, I just thought that since the Balrog never flew around underground it wouldn't be doing it here. Besides, size difference means that if the Balrog has room to maneuver, Data has more than enough room to work, and Data's at least close to a ringer with the phaser dodging so the whip isn't going to do much unless it's used to bring down lots of rubble from the ceiling.

No clue. Doesn't matter - it has a physical form, the phaser should be able to do SOMETHING to it.

Pretty much, it's just a question of if Data can get off enough shots, because at this point I don't think Data needs to tweak it to hurt Durin's Bane. I give Data the majority, but it's 6/4 or 7/3 at the most. He has to work for it and will come out looking worse than at the end of First Contact, but I think he takes it.

And don't worry about the edit, we all make mistakes.

[Sharpandpointies]

I honestly thought they were fighting back in the caves of Moria, rechecked the OP and "Underground crevice" so no clue as to if it's too narrow for it, I just thought that since the Balrog never flew around underground it wouldn't be doing it here. Besides, size difference means that if the Balrog has room to maneuver, Data has more than enough room to work, and Data's at least close to a ringer with the phaser dodging so the whip isn't going to do much unless it's used to bring down lots of rubble from the ceiling.

I'm not seeing Data having an easy time dodging an exceptionally long, flaming whip that can be swung to cover an area. When on the show did he actually move his whole body like that?

If he did, then great. :)

Either way, he has some time to shoot before the Balrog reaches him.

And don't worry about the edit, we all make mistakes.

Glad to hear. :)

[Dalak]

I'm not seeing Data having an easy time dodging an exceptionally long, flaming whip that can be swung to cover an area. When on the show did he actually move his whole body like that?

I forget the episode, but I recall him trying to get into a locked lab that had several security weapons built into the wall. He jumped around a bit and was able to shoot them. I'll try and dig it out and see if I'm mis-remembering. I remember he had to dump Antimatter into a Time distortion at the end of the episode if that helps.

[Dalak]

Okay, 2 phaser-banks on the wall were shooting at him, and he jerked his upper body out of the way of one of them, then made a running dive-roll over a crate to have another miss, then he popped up to shoot one of them. Another dive roll from one protective wall to another to have another phaser blast miss and then he shot it and fight scene's over.

I wish I could have found it on youtube or something but google-fu failed me and I have to check my own stuff. I'm not saying this makes Data BT or anything mind you, just a ringer ala Batman, so fast and dodgy he's hard to hit. Considering his much faster hand-speed and other enhanced abilities I don't this should be a problem.

[Sharpandpointies]

If you find it, let me know. I'd be curious to see it.

Batman, by the way, is comic book peak human. He's not a ringer.

[Dalak]

Well I guess I've been gone too long, and got confused about the ringer term. These things blur a bit when you aren't dealing with them semi-regularly.

[rabidrage]

I honestly thought they were fighting back in the caves of Moria, rechecked the OP and "Underground crevice" so no clue as to if it's too narrow for it, I just thought that since the Balrog never flew around underground it wouldn't be doing it here. Besides, size difference means that if the Balrog has room to maneuver, Data has more than enough room to work, and Data's at least close to a ringer with the phaser dodging so the whip isn't going to do much unless it's used to bring down lots of rubble from the ceiling.

I was thinking of the caves of Moria, actually. I wanted them to be squaring off in at least a reasonable facsimile. The crevice would be pretty wide, though...let's say about five Balrogs could stand shoulder-to-shoulder from one side to the other...though it is significantly longer.

I believe Data's speed would be significantly higher than a peak human's if only because he doesn't have the same limitations that humans do, i.e. he can process information and send the commands to his body parts with his positronic net much more quickly and efficiently than we can manipulate our own nervous systems. I believe the only thing hampering him would be literal physical limitations, such as his body just not being designed to move that fast no matter how fast he sends the commands to move.

That's probably a bit unclear because I'm not sure quite how to word it. It's like...whenever he's doing something at speed, like encrypting bridge commands, he's sending the messages to his fingers, to press one number, then another, then another, and he can hit multiple digits at once (perform multiple processes) just by sending out the commands as rapidly as possible. So it should be as simple as sending such commands at speed to his legs as well--move right leg, move left leg, move right leg, etc.

BUT without feats, this is all speculation. I dunno. Early morning musings over coffee.

[Dalak]

BUT without feats, this is all speculation. I dunno. Early morning musings over coffee.

Well if anyone here can find season 1 episode 24 it's in that episode close to the end. The only warning Data has that there is danger is the sound of somethign powering up before his acrobatic display I described earlier. This is all to fix a Time-experiment gone wrong and Data's the one who has to go to the mad scientist's lab to fix everything.

[Powerboy]

If you find it, let me know. I'd be curious to see it.

Batman, by the way, is comic book peak human. He's not a ringer.

I think he is referring to a first season episode called "Home Soil".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Soil

I don't have any youtube video of the scene but I watched it a few weeks ago. Data does some phaser dodging both by turning his body out of the way and, a couple of times, by doing forward rolls over and under the beam, which is being fired by a computer system. So there's body movement but the beams are not giant beams so whether it means anything against a giant whip that leaves him nowhere to dodge to is another matter.

I also cannot say for sure if Data has performed similar feats or if that was the only one involving moving his entire body. The rolls didn't look superhumanly fast due to a stuntman doing them, not CGI BUT I thought there was a bit of nano-second calculating on Data's part to help him. In effect, almost instantly measuring the aim and then moving but that's a judgement call.

[Powerboy]

Found it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1anTio3K6q0

Well, color me

It wasn't the way I thought I remembered it. The rolls must be from some other incident. Here he clearly dodges the laser fire. I wouldn't exactly call it bullet timing. Sharp, would you say it qualifies as aim-dodging?

At any rate, not full body movement in this scene.

[Dalak]

Found it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1anTio3K6q0

Well, color me

It wasn't the way I thought I remembered it. The rolls must be from some other incident. Here he clearly dodges the laser fire. I wouldn't exactly call it bullet timing. Sharp, would you say it qualifies as aim-dodging?

At any rate, not full body movement in this scene.

I think the title is "We'll always have Paris" (s1e24) or something like it due to Picard's old flame being married to an older scientist who accidentally broke Time.

Considering this feat, I think he's got the speed to evade the majority of attacks thrown at him, or at least enough to get behind some cover. I mean he did dodge that enough to trash the thing without shooting it.

[Sharpandpointies]

Seeing as I don't buy Data as someone who can move at phaser speeds, I'd call that aim-dodging. :)

Anyway, the phaser probably wins this for Data.

[Dalak]

Seeing as I don't buy Data as someone who can move at phaser speeds, I'd call that aim-dodging. :)

Believe it or not that's what I was trying to say last night. No way is he as fast as a phaser, but he's hard to hit. I just &%$#ed up with the terminology.