How does Superman fight a GL??

[Superlad93]

So I was talking about GL's on the other forums and they were talking about how the only thing holding back a GL is will (no duh right) and that it has been said that they have the power (individually) to actually rival the Specter!!

They said that if the think something is invincible then it is. So when I saw that I thought "well then how does Superman defeat them at all let alone most of the time". So then I came up with some theory's on the subject and I wanted to see what the Superman fans thought was the answer.

"Hmm...so then is that why GL's get defeated by Superman a lot? Because the public opinion of Superman is that he is the most powerful man around so you bring that way of thinking into a GL ring and by the logic I've gathered here they automatically get defeated.

It's like "Oh gosh Superman's here maybe I should put up a shield.....but then again he's Superman so what good would it do" "Oh big surprise he broke it"

Is it like that?


Or is it that (and I've heard this) when a GL fights someone with a will that rivals or is stronger than their own then will the be defeated regardless of the power of the one they face? I heard that if you grab a ring that's on a GL's finger your wills will fight to see who has more.

Is that how Superman fights a GL by just having more will than they do at the time?


........or is he just stronger than them so he breaks their stuff?"

[Cypher-Z]

Both when you think of it. Hes the greatest Superhero and never gives into evil. Its his will to protect all thats good and live by something he believes that doesnt allow him to crack.

On top of that he can practically lay a beating on anyone with brute strength. And he has a set of other powers which would allow him to come up with strategies to beat them to.

[Desaad]

Eh, he just punches them.

The real answer is that superman is a more popular character, a more notable character, and a character that occupies a certain headspace in the cultural consciousness as invincible, supreme in the confines of the superhero universe. That he will always, by putting hands on hips and glaring sternly, win the day. And so often, he does. This was especially true of a certain era of Superman comics led by Loeb -- less and less true as the years have passed.

Additionally, ill defined power sets like that of Green Lantern or the Silver Surfer, especially those reliant more on energy than brute strength, tend to be mercurial things. In one issue, Hal is knocked out by a tree. In another, he stops all of time. In one issue, Silver Surfer casually defeats guy as strong as the Hulk. In another, he's knocked out by a brick. It's the nature of things. Characters are as powerful as they need to be for a story -- same reason that Superman isn't constantly acting at super speed in his various battles, despite the obvious expediency and efficiency of doing so.

The in comics explanation is that GLs DO have limitations, and that day to day will be operating at different levels. Under Johns GLs have largely just been construct machines, and limits of the ring have been shown. Overall they still show abilities like time travel and matter manipulation, but much less frequently.

My personal favorite GL/Superman confrontation came under Joe Kelly; Tom Kalmaku use an old thought of Hals to create kryptonite. Superman finds a way around it, as he always does, but in that moment he shows real fear, which the ring uses to its advantage; it goes into his mind, pulls out the fear and makes it Superman's reality, a sort of horrible telepathic attack.

Pretty fun.

[Superlad93]

Yea I understand all of that (I am a Superman fan) but theoretically how is it possibly? I mean if each one of these guys has the ultimate weapon in the universe (and I do think GL rings are the ultimate weapons) and if they just use it right how can Superman fight that?

1. Is it cus everyone just already thinks they can't hope to beat him

2. do the rings work on a will vs will sort of thing? Then after that does it mean his will is stronger?

3. Is he just that strong and no matter how strong a GL's will is, it's just not stronger than him?

these are the only real ways I can see them writing it, and the last way is just a slap in the face of the GL concept.

[Desaad]

It isn't a will vs will thing, generally. There are one or two instances of that being implied - the only one that comes to mind at the moment is Rucka writing a Superman vs JLA confrontation - but generally that isn't how it works.

Superman is strong enough that presumably you'd need a large amount of will to create a shield that could block him. Are his punches more devastating that the center of a star, or a black hole, which Green Lanterns regularly travel through (and in some cases even seal)? No. But that's just the nature of comics.

[Superlad93]

Eh, he just punches them.

The real answer is that superman is a more popular character, a more notable character, and a character that occupies a certain headspace in the cultural consciousness as invincible, supreme in the confines of the superhero universe. That he will always, by putting hands on hips and glaring sternly, win the day. And so often, he does. This was especially true of a certain era of Superman comics led by Loeb -- less and less true as the years have passed.

Additionally, ill defined power sets like that of Green Lantern or the Silver Surfer, especially those reliant more on energy than brute strength, tend to be mercurial things. In one issue, Hal is knocked out by a tree. In another, he stops all of time. In one issue, Silver Surfer casually defeats guy as strong as the Hulk. In another, he's knocked out by a brick. It's the nature of things. Characters are as powerful as they need to be for a story -- same reason that Superman isn't constantly acting at super speed in his various battles, despite the obvious expediency and efficiency of doing so.

The in comics explanation is that GLs DO have limitations, and that day to day will be operating at different levels. Under Johns GLs have largely just been construct machines, and limits of the ring have been shown. Overall they still show abilities like time travel and matter manipulation, but much less frequently.

My personal favorite GL/Superman confrontation came under Joe Kelly; Tom Kalmaku use an old thought of Hals to create kryptonite. Superman finds a way around it, as he always does, but in that moment he shows real fear, which the ring uses to its advantage; it goes into his mind, pulls out the fear and makes it Superman's reality, a sort of horrible telepathic attack.

Pretty fun.

I very well aware of the "strong as they need to be thing" (it's Superman's whole thing) But look looking at things from an in comic viewpoint, how does this work? Is there an credible reason as to why he can do it?

Personally I like my reasons 1 and 2. 1 speaks to Superman as a concept that all look up to. A concept that even bigger than the man himself and 2 speaks about how much will power he actually has.

3 just seems disrespectful to GL's to me. I mean we as Superman fans hate it when Superman is show as less than he is "just because" and I don't like to see other fan bases go through that.

[robcastor729]

GL Sodam Yat would be a challenge for Superman

[Desaad]

I very well aware of the "strong as they need to be thing" (it's Superman's whole thing) But look looking at things from an in comic viewpoint, how does this work? Is there an credible reason as to why he can do it?

Personally I like my reasons 1 and 2. 1 speaks to Superman as a concept that all look up to. A concept that even bigger than the man himself and 2 speaks about how much will power he actually has.

3 just seems disrespectful to GL's to me. I mean we as Superman fans hate it when Superman is show as less than he is "just because" and I don't like to see other fan bases go through that.

So in essence you're not really interested in listening to anyone but yourself.

Cool.

[Superlad93]

So in essence you're not really interested in listening to anyone but yourself.

Cool.

What!? No, I was only saying that I thought the two ways I set up were respectful (one of the ways I actually just heard about).

I thought people would start to give out more ideas using in comic explanations. That's the only reason I replied back to you that I already knew the "out of comic explanation".

I meant no disrespect by what I said or even what I'm saying now.

I don't know to much about GL's (I know a bit) so I was hoping that those fans of Superman and GL would come in and say what they thought.

I was actually hoping for you specifically (among others) to come in on this because I think you once told me that you were a big fan of Hal, and you are a big fan of Superman.

All I was really hoping for were some educated "in comic book" (as in can be stated in the book) guesses or what the fans of one or the other think the confrontations should be like.

I only wanted my opinion to just be there to get the ideas rolling and not what it should actually be (you don't even have to base it off what I said if you don't want to).

And if you think he should just be stronger then so be it. I was just stating what I thought.


I'm interested in listening to everyone.

[The Action Ace]

I seem to remember Byrne doing a story and Kal smashed through constructs and it was explained that it was due to a combo of Superman's Might and Will. So it may possible that if a GL we're able to prolong a battle and not get KO'd early they could wear Superman down and the constructs would have a greater effect as Superman tires.

[Fast]

A GL isn't going to be rivaling any of the Spectre's not when going all out.

Anyway, Silver Surfer is in no way a glass cannon. He is packing class 100 strength/durability along with his esoteric powers.

As for Supes fighting GLs he just has to overwhelm their autoshields before they can really amp themselves.

[Froggy]

A GL isn't going to be rivaling any of the Spectre's not when going all out.

Anyway, Silver Surfer is in no way a glass cannon. He is packing class 100 strength/durability along with his esoteric powers.

As for Supes fighting GLs he just has to overwhelm their autoshields before they can really amp themselves.

this pretty much

GL's, unless kryptonian level in reflexes can get overwhelmed by speedsters

i.e. Hal vs zoom in return of barry allen

[Buried Alien]

Green Lanterns are susceptible to speed blitz by Superman unless the rings can artificially boost their speed to match his level. Maybe they can, but I can't cite any canon of a GL doing anything of that sort.

Using constructs against Superman is never successful, and it surprises me that the GLs actually go for this strategy when any of them fight Superman. With the ring's abilities, a GL could probably turn Superman into a daisy or even drain his power out of him (Silver Age GL rings were capable of such feats), but for plot reasons, GLs *never* do such things.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[destro]

1st it depends on the Lantern. What is their will power level, how skilled are they? Is the GL part of a race that has it's own powers sans the ring? etc.. There are probably many that Superman can defeat and some that he cannot defeat.

2nd where are they fighting and why? This is not a rumbles scenario, just a question about Superman fighting a GL in a normal comic book story. So there are many factors that can play into it. Is it a rogue GL willing to go all out? Is Superman trying to save someone? Are they in a city where Superman might be constrained from using his full power? You could go on and on with this..

3rd what is the story the writer wants to tell?

Anyway I don't really remember Superman ever smacking around Lanterns easily or anything. I thought they were generally portrayed as being fairly evenly matched.

[earl]

If it is about will, Superman would have a ring, which is actually a story I'm surprised hasn't happened. They have done it a couple different ways with Batman with both the Elseworlds story by Mike Barr and having the 'yellow fear ring' search him out.