All-purpose news and politics thread: One Step Beyond!

[carabas]

"Were you a slave when you were called? Don’t let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so. For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave. You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of human beings." 1 Corinthians 7:21-23

It mentions nothing about it bring a sin.

and one from the Old Testament "He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 21:16)

And that one has nothing to do with slavery. The OT is very explicitly okay with slavery.

[shadowmon]

It mentions nothing about it bring a sin.


And that one has nothing to do with slavery. The OT is very explicitly okay with slavery.

Or he is found in his possession.... In order to posses somthing in this context doesn't it mean you have to own it?

[mikekerrIII]

No Mike. It really isn't unless all the people who are saying he helped them escape from the secret police are lying.

He public connected with silence and political support while quietly helping the victims of the govement he was publicly supporting. that kind of political cowardice is not what I would have expected out of a Jesuit they are usually not shy about calling out evil acts.

I wionder how being Pope and his vows of poverty will work out, it will be hard for him to serve as pope and meet the requirements of that vow, but it looks like he will give it a try

[mikekerrIII]

The Church of England, the state church, was banned in order to placate them - "see, you don't have to do any of these marriages, stop moaning". The Church of Wales got sucked into it as well because they're an Anglican church and the new law covers Wales too, which is a bit shit for the Welsh.

the idea that Parliament had any say at all is what probbly puzzles Americans

[spoon_jenkins]

I understand you get small benefits for being married but you also become more financially liable at the same time.

This argument doesn't make sense. There may be some drawbacks to getting married, so you think gay people should be fine with not being allowed to marry. There's a gigantic logical flaw to your argument. The existence of gay marriage wouldn't prevent a couple from choosing not to get married and avoid a drawback like being liable for the debts of a spouse. Why should a straight couple be allowed to choose which package of pros and cons (married or single) they want and gay couples be forced into one of the two options. That's a very paternalistic arguments. It's like misogynistic culture that argue they give women greater rights by freeing them from the burden of traveling without a male relative or driving a car. Those people are bigots because they don't give women the right to choose whether they want the supposed privileged lifestyle of being "protected".

[mikekerrIII]

Other than not getting a marraige license what can they not do that a straight couple can do

A few hundred things legaly, like file a joint return, control the affairs of a incompetent or unconscious spouse, inherit at the same tax rate, get insurance jointly.

[carabas]

Or he is found in his possession.... In order to posses somthing in this context doesn't it mean you have to own it?

It covers kidnapping, not slavery.

[Iangould]

He public connected with silence and political support while quietly helping the victims of the govement he was publicly supporting. that kind of political cowardice is not what I would have expected out of a Jesuit they are usually not shy about calling out evil acts.

And, as I already pointed out, if he had not he would likely habve ended up ead in a ditch like other Catholic clergy who spoke out and the peopel he helped would probably have ended up dead too.

You and I are lucky, we've never had to live under a dictatorship, I don't presume to judge people who did too harshly unless there's really solid evidence.

Solzenitzhen was a leading figure in the Russian Writer's League and a member of the Duma. He originally released "A Day in the Life" anonymously. Does that make him a moral coward?

[mikekerrIII]

and, as I lready pointed out, if he had not he would likely habve ended up ead in a ditch like other Catholic clergy who spoke out and the peopel he helped would probably have ended up dead too.

You and I are lucky, we've never had to live under a dictatorship, I don't presume to judge people who did too harshly unless there's really solid evidence.

Solzenitzhen was a leading figure in the Russian Writer's League and a member of the Duma. He originally released "A Day in the Life" anonymously. Does that make him a moral coward?

He was a catholic Bishop In Argentina he was not very likely to end up in a ditch

[Iangould]

He was a catholic Bishop In Argentina he was not very likely to end up in a ditch

At least one other Catholic Bishop did.

Edited to add a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrique_Angelelli

[Nick Soapdish]

Other than not getting a marraige license what can they not do that a straight couple can do

There are more than a thousand federal rights that go along with that marriage license.

Cor. 6:9-10
Rom. 1:26-28,
Lev. 20:13

Here are few that deem homosexuality is wrong, we can infer and comprehend gay marriage is wrong. According to the bible.

Corinthians relies on a Greek word that isn't found anywhere else and nobody knows the actual translation for. Some of the interpretations have been temple prostitutes, effeminate men or Catholic priests. One interpretation is that it means homosexuals.

Leviticus also directs people to stone others that work on the Sabbath, explicitly identifies eating shellfish as an abomination, forbids certain types of haircuts and planting different kinds of crops in the same field, among many other things. As Jared said earlier, it's impossible to follow all of the dictates since some of them contradict each other.

As for Romans, Paul has some problematic views in other areas as well. He tells slaves to serve their master as though they would serve Christ, although urging them to try to buy their freedom. And he doesn't think that women should be allowed to talk in church, but should ask their husbands at home, nor should they exercise any authority over man. It wasn't a particularly uncommon view, but there were a lot of people in his day that were more egalitarian than he was.

And before you bring up Sodom and Gomorrah, the Bible condemns the men because they wanted to rape the angels. The Bible also condemns (occasionally) the rape of women.

Or he is found in his possession.... In order to posses somthing in this context doesn't it mean you have to own it?

Leviticus expressly gives permission to owning and selling slaves in two verses - Leviticus 21:7 and Leviticus 25:24.

[Spike-X]

And before you bring up Sodom and Gomorrah, the Bible condemns the men because they wanted to rape the angels. The Bible also condemns (occasionally) the rape of women.

Yeah, apparently if you rape a woman, you have to marry her. Talk about a life sentence, amirite guys?

[dupersuper]

Show me a Bible verse that says owning slaves is a sin.

Are verses condemning wearing clothes made of 2 kinds of fabric close enough?

[Alan Lynch]

I never said the rest of the world has to follow the bible.

Terrific. Taken at your word you have beliefs but don't want to force them on others. But what people are arguing here is that the Catholic Church as an organisation is trying to influence, bully, coerce and otherwise push the world to do as they say. It's what finally pushed me to stop going to Church, and it's what people here are arguing.

So,simple question. Putting your own personal beliefs aside, do you think it's right that the Catholic Church is pushing - hard - the rest of the world to follow their beliefs to the point of attempting to influence government?

(If anyone can word that better than me please do, because it's 7am and I'm still half asleep)

[Iangould]

Up to 15% of HIV-positive people who receive drug treatment shortly after infection can be "functionally cured".