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  1. #3226
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    How would they get it there? i doubt Iraq would give them free transit. And there are only two nations in the world with enough airlift to move an army and they both have pretty severe limits on that capablity
    Not from the ground no, that said we pulled out of Iraq before they recieved their F16s (supposed to be shipped early 2014) so they really can't do too much to protect their air space from the other regional powers flying troops across their air space or bombing them at the moment resent it. But, in June we are shipping a large number of refurbished antiaircraft guns to Iraq.

    Syrian War’s Spillover Threatens a Fragile Iraq

    The United States is providing Iraq with refurbished antiaircraft guns, free of charge, but they will not arrive until June. In the meantime, the Iraqis have collected cold war-era missiles found in a junkyard on an air base north of Baghdad, and they are trying to get them in working order. Iraq is negotiating with Russia to buy air defense systems that could be delivered much more quickly than those bought from the United States.

    “Iraq recognizes they don’t control their airspace, and they are very sensitive to that,” General Caslen said. Each time Turkish fighter jets enter Iraq’s airspace to bomb Kurdish targets, he said, Iraqi officials “see it, they know it and they resent it.”

    Iraq and the United States are negotiating an agreement that could result in the return of small units of American soldiers to Iraq on training missions. At the request of the Iraqi government, according to General Caslen, a unit of Army Special Operations soldiers was recently deployed to Iraq to advise on counterterrorism and help with intelligence.


    As Western policy makers consider intervention in Syria, they worry that country’s war could turn into a full-blown sectarian conflict like the one that engulfed Iraq from 2005 to 2007. For Iraqis who fled to Syria and are now returning, not by choice but to save their own lives, Syria already is Iraq.

    “It’s exactly like it was in Iraq,” said Zina Ritha, 29, who returned to Baghdad after several years in Damascus. Referring to the Free Syrian Army, Ms. Ritha said: “The F.S.A. is destroying Shia houses. They are kidnapping people, especially the Iraqis and the Shia.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/25/wo...anted=all&_r=0
    By the way the Iraq/Syrian border has become very hot lately with alot of fierce on the ground battles and al-Qaeda fighters still managing to make their way in and one of them managed to kill an Iraqi member of parliament a week ago so they asked the U.S. with further help with that and believe the Penagon is willing to supply them with Predator Drones.

    Iraq: Defence Ministry, Predator and UAVs

    Iraqi Acting Defence Minister Saadoun Al-Dulaimi is said to have the impression that the Pentagon is going to supply the Iraqi Defence Ministry with unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) of type Predator.

    http://www.tacticalreport.com/view_n..._and_UAVs/3155
    Last edited by jmc247; 01-30-2013 at 09:42 PM.

  2. #3227

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    How would they get it there? i doubt Iraq would give them free transit. And there are only two nations in the world with enough airlift to move an army and they both have pretty severe limits on that capablity
    They're reported to have been flying up to 100 "civilian" flights a day between Iran and Syria via Iraq but the Iraqi government eventually cracked down on that.

    You can't transport a T-70 via a commercial jetliner but you can transport several hundred troops together with their personal and squad weapons.
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  3. #3228
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iangould View Post
    It's not a matter of morality.

    The Freedom of Information Act; whistleblowers; Wikileaks/Anonymous have all made it far harder to get away with this shit.

    So has the massive increase in the number of journalists from all over the world in war zones.
    More whistleblowers were prosecuted bz Obama than anz other president Wikileaks was nver such a big deal. You can find out all of that by reading non US newspapers.

    They believed he might have WMDs.

    The thing is: intelligence is never 100% reliable so the real question was what's the percentage chance that Iraq has WMDs and what's a rational response?
    You don't invade a country based on a suspicion.The neocons wanted this or something like this. Just read the PNAC.
    langould posted:
    If false flag operations were as easy and risk-free and common as you seem to think why didn't they just plant some fake WMDs after the invasion?
    I don't think its risk free or easy. My bet would be that in 2003 there was such a War on Terror atmosphere that they did not think they needed too.

    unfortanatly i cannot know if their source was infowars or not because i cannot compare the sources. The article eas apparently taken down.

  4. #3229
    Senior Member bringthenoise's Avatar
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    You can find out all of that by reading non US newspapers.
    Fairly certain Ian IS reading non-US newspapers. Yanno, because he lives in AUSTRALIA.

  5. #3230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Choblik View Post
    More whistleblowers were prosecuted bz Obama than anz other president Wikileaks was nver such a big deal. You can find out all of that by reading non US newspapers.
    As BTN indicated I live outside the US and scan a bunch of different international papers more or less daily. Currently, because of events in Syria and Egypt, I read Al Jazeera and al Ahram daily and check out Al Arabiya, Zaman and the Daily star at least a couple of times a week. Most days I also have a quick scan of the front page of Xinhuanet.

    I also have a degree in Asian Studies and try to keep abreast of developments in that area of the world. For example, earlier this evening I was reading about political developments in Vietnam.

    But I'm always open to learn so please share with me exactly which papers it is you're getting your information from.

    While we're trading advice, you might benefit from reading fewer far right conspiracy sites and from a course in critical thinking.

    One site I do visit daily is Ed Brayton's blog "Dispatches from the culture wars" which deals at length with civil rights and right to information issues in the US. You might benefit from reading that too.
    Last edited by Iangould; 01-31-2013 at 03:41 AM.
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  6. #3231

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    You know it just struck me that I could have saved a lot of typing by pointign out tht thi whole exchange started with me citing an article from the Daily Mail, a non-US newspaper.

    but obviously not the right kind of non-US paper.
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  7. #3232
    Elder Member king mob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmc247 View Post
    I know a liberal democrat who was in military intelligence during the Clinton years and he said they believed Saddam had WMDs then. One can argue certain people sexed up the reports in their presentation to the UN and in telling Bush and others about Saddam's weapons, but one can't argue that the intel community in the U.S. didn't believe Saddam had WMDs.
    The reports were a tissue of lies or essays from students rewritten by Alistair Campbell and his Downing Street staff to give Blair and in turn, Bush the excuse illegally invade Iraq, even though experts were saying Iraq had fuck all. The reports Colin Powell had were lies, and the entire thing was a pack of lies from start to finish.

  8. #3233
    Elder Member king mob's Avatar
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    Unstable country in the Middle East or Africa? Why, there's David Cameron trying to flog weapons, sorry, help build democracy!

    David Cameron has arrived for a surprise one-day visit to the Libyan capital, Tripoli, despite recent threats to the British embassy and consulates.

    He flew from Algiers in a personal statement of support for the Arab spring and the new Libyan government, which is struggling to assert its authority against militias and lack of resources.

    He promised to do more to help the country, which has battled to develop a functioning democracy after decades of dictatorship.

    He was due to meet the recently appointed prime minister, Ali Zaidan, who is trying to construct a government of national unity and disband the militias that dominate the country.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...surprise-visit

    Cameron is really making Blair, Major and Thatcher look like Gandhi.

  9. #3234
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    North Korea imposes martial law, orders troops to ‘be ready for war’

    North Korea has allegedly been placed under martial law and its ruler Kim Jong-un has ordered the army to “prepare for war”, a South Korean daily claims.

    *The North Korean leader issued a series of orders to his top defense and security officials on Saturday to conclude preparations for a new nuclear test, the Seoul based Korea JoongAng Daily alleges citing an unnamed source.

    The source reportedly said that Kim Jong-un issued a secret order to “complete preparations for a nuclear weapons test <…>and carry it out soon”.

    According to the source, Kim Jong-un also said, “The country will be under martial law starting from midnight January 29th and all the frontline and central units should be ready for war.”

    http://rt.com/news/martial-law-north-korea-180/
    Martial Law in a Stalinist state makes today different then any other day?

    U.S.: North Korean nuclear test 'soon'

    The United States believes is ready "at any time" to conduct a nuclear test, American officials tell CNN. "We think they are preparing for a test," one U.S. official told CNN Wednesday. "We are watching it all as closely as we can."

    U.S. officials say they are bracing for a third test by Pyongyang "soon," although they caution it's near impossible to predict the timing.

    "One thing for sure," a senior official told CNN. "They will definitely test a nuclear weapon. But the tricky thing is, nobody can tell you for your day planner that is when it will be."

    http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2013/0...ime/?hpt=wo_c2

  10. #3235
    Elder Member mikekerrIII's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iangould View Post
    They're reported to have been flying up to 100 "civilian" flights a day between Iran and Syria via Iraq but the Iraqi government eventually cracked down on that.

    You can't transport a T-70 via a commercial jetliner but you can transport several hundred troops together with their personal and squad weapons.
    You can move the troops but yu can't supply them, the troops are easy, the stuff they need to remain operation is Hard, and troops without adequate logistics a soon become cannon fodder
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  11. #3236
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    F-16s 'Fired 8 Missiles, Bunker-Buster at Syria Chemical Site'

    The site allegedly attacked by Israel in Syria manufactured chemical and biological weapons, according to a report in Iraqi newspaper Azzaman that appears in London.

    The newspaper quoted Western diplomats who are close to the regime of Bashar al-Assad. It says that the classified installation, which is located just 12 kilometers (7 miles) from the presidential palace, was guarded by a large contingent of Iranian Revolutionary Guards, many of whom died in the attack.

    A diplomatic source interviewed by the newspaper said that the attack took place 48 hours before it was first reported. He said that initial reports regarding a convoy that was attacked were meant to disguise the true target of the attack. However, the newspaper reported, some trucks were also destroyed in the attack.

    The diplomatic source said that Israeli F-16 jets carried out two sorties over the installation, firing at least eight guided missiles at it as well as at least one bunker busting bomb. The installation was badly damaged and there were numerous casualties. He said that about 3,000 Iranian Revolutionary Guards were stationed at the installation, as well as several Russian experts.

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/164785
    Not mutually exclusive according to a U.S. official as their may have been a convoy of weapons near a military site.

    Later Wednesday, a U.S. official said the accounts of two targets—a convoy of weapons, and a military site—weren't mutually exclusive.

    The U.S. believes Israeli warplanes bombed a Hezbollah-bound convoy of antiaircraft missiles, U.S. officials said. The vehicles may have been close to a military facility, they said, cautioning their information remained incomplete.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...863731082.html

  12. #3237
    Elder Member Charles RB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king mob View Post
    Unstable country in the Middle East or Africa? Why, there's David Cameron trying to flog weapons, sorry, help build democracy!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...surprise-visit

    Cameron is really making Blair, Major and Thatcher look like Gandhi.
    Let's be honest: he's offering "defence aid" (i.e. money for weapons, kit etc) and help training soldiers & policeman, and that does help build democracy when the elected government doesn't have much control of the streets. Militias having free reign long-term is really shit. He's also there to keep relations good with a now-friendly state so it stays a friendly state, which is part of his job, and to go "look everyone, we're not against Muslims when we're helping France in Mali, here's me hanging with some Muslims", which is also his job.

    That's not really the same as Blair with Iraq, or Thatcher in Northern Ireland, or the backing of Chile, South Africa, and Gaddafi-era Libya.
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  13. #3238

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikekerrIII View Post
    You can move the troops but yu can't supply them, the troops are easy, the stuff they need to remain operation is Hard, and troops without adequate logistics a soon become cannon fodder
    Umm yeah Mike that's pretty much exactly what I said.

    You can carry several tons of cargo in a widebodied passenger plane, which is enough for stuff like machine guns, light mortars and RPGs but not tanks or self-propelled artillery.
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  14. #3239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iangould View Post
    Umm yeah Mike that's pretty much exactly what I said.

    You can carry several tons of cargo in a widebodied passenger plane, which is enough for stuff like machine guns, light mortars and RPGs but not tanks or self-propelled artillery.
    What I was trying to say is that even if you can carry the troops you can't support them in the field so they fairly quickly t become useless.
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  15. #3240
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