View Poll Results: How do you feel about the Return of the Superman Batman bromance

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  • Love it, I prefer them as the World's Finest

    88 77.88%
  • Eh, I don't care either way

    14 12.39%
  • Hate it, Superman and Bats should be at each others throats Frank Miller style

    7 6.19%
  • None of these, I just want to continue to complain about the Nu 52

    4 3.54%
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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post


    Considering you call Superman losing to Batman bad writing, you ought to talk.
    How else can it be called? Superman is more powerful, faster and smarter than Batman. He shouldn't ever lose to Batman. If he ever lose to Batman it obviously has to be bad writing.

  2. #92
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    So, then by your rationale, Roger Stern and Dan Jurgens were both bad writers for having Superman give Batman the ring in the first place and then using it effectively in one story. It's bad writing to have the one thing specifically designed to weaken and kill Superman, not be in the hands of someone who will take him down. That is what the whole point of the ring's purpose after it was taken from Lex. Yes, there were stories where Clark survived it. Not because it was Superman is better than Batman and thus shouldn't be beaten by a mere mortal. But because the writers had a different ending in mind. It was only brought up because of continuity issues. There has to be a level of credibility with both the notion that a mortal can kill Superman with his greatest weakness. Otherwise Lex Luthor and Kryptonite in general is pointless.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    So, then by your rationale, Roger Stern and Dan Jurgens were both bad writers for having Superman give Batman the ring in the first place and then using it effectively in one story. It's bad writing to have the one thing specifically designed to weaken and kill Superman, not be in the hands of someone who will take him down. That is what the whole point of the ring's purpose after it was taken from Lex. Yes, there were stories where Clark survived it. Not because it was Superman is better than Batman and thus shouldn't be beaten by a mere mortal. But because the writers had a different ending in mind. It was only brought up because of continuity issues. There has to be a level of credibility with both the notion that a mortal can kill Superman with his greatest weakness. Otherwise Lex Luthor and Kryptonite in general is pointless.
    The whole point of that story was bat-wanking. Superman doesn't need anybody to keep him in check. He's got Lois, Ma and Pa Kent, Jimmy. If Superman ever gets mindcontrolled he will always manage to free himself because he's got great willpower and has great goodness inside that won't allow him to do evil. Batman is pointless in Superman's world. Haven't you noticed how they never allow Superman to go to Gotham? Yet Batman always finds his way to Metropolis? They know Gotham has no challenge for the Man of steel. Seriously dude, stop pretending you like Superman.


    Lex Luthor has more going for him than just Kryptonite. To the world he's a respected bussinessman and scientist. NO to mention the metahuman henchmen at his service. Also Lex is way smarter than Batman and has way better technology.

  4. #94
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    The whole point of that story was bat-wanking. Superman doesn't need anybody to keep him in check. He's got Lois, Ma and Pa Kent, Jimmy. If Superman ever gets mindcontrolled he will always manage to free himself because he's got great willpower and has great goodness inside that won't allow him to do evil.
    The whole point wasn't about mind control. It was established in the Gangbuster arc that Clark was a threat not because of mind control, but because the inner darkness within Clark's fragile psyche started spilling out every time he fell asleep. He was afraid that he would seriously hurt and possibly kill people. He almost killed the Guardian at least three times and was brutalizing criminals as well. That is why he left Earth during "Exile", he was afraid of hurting people. He could no longer trust himself. It took the Eradicator to fix the damage wrought by killing Zod, Faora and Quex-Ul, in order for Clark to even consider going home. He gave the ring to Bruce because of his fears. Which is also why Paul Westfield sent some of the Cadmus's own the Bloodhounds after Clark. That's why we had "Dark Knight Over Metropolis", "Red Glass" and the Kismet issue. It wasn't fan wankery. It was a storyline that the Superman writers came up with build up the friendship between Clark and Bruce, as well as deal with any future storyline where it could come to pass. Hence the number of stories since 1990.

    Batman is pointless in Superman's world. Haven't you noticed how they never allow Superman to go to Gotham? Yet Batman always finds his way to Metropolis? They know Gotham has no challenge for the Man of steel.
    "Man Of Steel" #3, Superman: The Man Of Steel Annual #4, The Batman Chronicles #7, Superman #83, Action Comics #719, "No Man's Land", "Bruce Wayne: Fugitive", "American Dreams", "Rock Of Ages", "Terror Incognita", "The Tornado Path", Superman/Batman and countless other stories where Superman flew to Gotham to talk with Bruce. Or help out.

    Seriously dude, stop pretending you like Superman.
    Why would I pretend to like Superman? What do I gain from pretending? Why would I waste money on comics, books, movies, CD's, hats, shirts and toys? Why would I spend all my time in here talking about Superman? Seriously, think before you type.

    Lex Luthor has more going for him than just Kryptonite.
    Yet, in the time I've been reading the books, the one thing he's prided himself on obtaining the most is Kryptonite. He wanted what Metallo had and he got it. He lost the ring and was scrambling to find another piece, even almost risking his own life in Engine City to get what he wanted. He pulled a fast one on Clark in order to get the ring back and then had to deal with Clark, Bruce and Lois when they came for the ring and managed to switch it back. In "Up, Up And Away", we learned that he was the recipient of all the Kryptonite that fell to Earth in "Public Enemies", which was stolen from Kord Industries. Not to mention that he had injected it into his system, in order to fight Clark. In "Supergirl: Power", he had pieces of Kryptonite in his warsuit's gauntlet. In Action Comics Annual #10, he went looking for Kryptonite and had four shards in his possession, which he then gave to Metallo as a power up.

    To the world he's a respected bussinessman and scientist. NO to mention the metahuman henchmen at his service. Also Lex is way smarter than Batman and has way better technology.
    If Lex was so smart, why did Bruce manage to keep him from taking over Gotham in "No Man's Land"? If Lex was so smart, why didn't he know that the Kryptonite ring was switched in Detective Comics #756? If Lex was so smart, why didn't he know that Bruce had bought off Mirror Master so that the JLA could find and stop the Injustice League? If Lex was so smart, why did he disbelieve that Clark Kent was Superman when he had a computer tell him? If Lex was so smart, he wouldn't have been impeached and he wouldn't have lost Lexcorp. And if Lex was so smart, why was he exposed as a criminal three times over?

    Better technology? Yeah, so why is Superman still alive?

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post

    Why would I pretend to like Superman? What do I gain from pretending? Why would I waste money on comics, books, movies, CD's, hats, shirts and toys? Why would I spend all my time in here talking about Superman? Seriously, think before you type.
    Dude, I would never have the patience to argue with these kind of things. Kudos.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    And you aren't rabid. Pot. Kettle. Black. And no, my word isn't more important. I'm going by what's in the comics.
    Twisting facts isn't going by comics.



    Considering you call Superman losing to Batman bad writing, you ought to talk.
    Considering it has never happened in main continuity and superman kicked that dirty rodent's ass several times, there is no need for me to make excuses like you do. "Story, plot, bad writing, bitching, blah, blah, sob, sob" that's your entire argument.



    Talk about pathetic.
    Concession accepted. Now move on and accept that Superman would always kick that dirty rodent's ass. Yeah, its pathetic how rabid batman fanboys like you are
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    The whole point wasn't about mind control. It was established in the Gangbuster arc that Clark was a threat not because of mind control, but because the inner darkness within Clark's fragile psyche started spilling out every time he fell asleep. He was afraid that he would seriously hurt and possibly kill people. He almost killed the Guardian at least three times and was brutalizing criminals as well. That is why he left Earth during "Exile", he was afraid of hurting people. He could no longer trust himself. It took the Eradicator to fix the damage wrought by killing Zod, Faora and Quex-Ul, in order for Clark to even consider going home. He gave the ring to Bruce because of his fears. Which is also why Paul Westfield sent some of the Cadmus's own the Bloodhounds after Clark. That's why we had "Dark Knight Over Metropolis", "Red Glass" and the Kismet issue. It wasn't fan wankery. It was a storyline that the Superman writers came up with build up the friendship between Clark and Bruce, as well as deal with any future storyline where it could come to pass. Hence the number of stories since 1990.
    Just before giving Batman the ring, Superman said: "Paraphrasing"There have been enemies who had tried to control me due to my great power. If I ever become a threat I want the only mean to stop me to be in the hands of the only man I would trust with my life.... It was all about mind control or Superman somehow becoming a threat.
    Did Superman need Batman to decide to leave earth during exile? No. They gave the kryptonite to Batman so he could have an edge over Superman... Cheer fanboyism.
    That whole story Dark Knight over Metropolis was quite good until that moment. By the way Not once did they have Superman using his super speed so Batman didn't look bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    "Man Of Steel" #3, Superman: The Man Of Steel Annual #4, The Batman Chronicles #7, Superman #83, Action Comics #719, "No Man's Land", "Bruce Wayne: Fugitive", "American Dreams", "Rock Of Ages", "Terror Incognita", "The Tornado Path", Superman/Batman and countless other stories where Superman flew to Gotham to talk with Bruce. Or help out.
    Man of Steel 3 was beyond pathetic... Macpie of all people... Come on dude.
    And most of those appearances were in Superman books. No Man's Land was a joke as well. They come up with a bullshit reason for Superman not to everything by himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Why would I pretend to like Superman? What do I gain from pretending? Why would I waste money on comics, books, movies, CD's, hats, shirts and toys? Why would I spend all my time in here talking about Superman? Seriously, think before you type.
    It is you who must pay attention to the things you type. You claim to really like Superman but everytime he's compared to other characters: Batman specifically you side with that said character. Every single time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Yet, in the time I've been reading the books, the one thing he's prided himself on obtaining the most is Kryptonite. He wanted what Metallo had and he got it. He lost the ring and was scrambling to find another piece, even almost risking his own life in Engine City to get what he wanted. He pulled a fast one on Clark in order to get the ring back and then had to deal with Clark, Bruce and Lois when they came for the ring and managed to switch it back. In "Up, Up And Away", we learned that he was the recipient of all the Kryptonite that fell to Earth in "Public Enemies", which was stolen from Kord Industries. Not to mention that he had injected it into his system, in order to fight Clark. In "Supergirl: Power", he had pieces of Kryptonite in his warsuit's gauntlet. In Action Comics Annual #10, he went looking for Kryptonite and had four shards in his possession, which he then gave to Metallo as a power up.
    Because at that time Superman was weaker and kryptonite was the one tool he could use to cause him more harm. But Kryptonite has never been the only tool at Lex's disposal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    If Lex was so smart, why did Bruce manage to keep him from taking over Gotham in "No Man's Land"? If Lex was so smart, why didn't he know that the Kryptonite ring was switched in Detective Comics #756? If Lex was so smart, why didn't he know that Bruce had bought off Mirror Master so that the JLA could find and stop the Injustice League? If Lex was so smart, why did he disbelieve that Clark Kent was Superman when he had a computer tell him? If Lex was so smart, he wouldn't have been impeached and he wouldn't have lost Lexcorp. And if Lex was so smart, why was he exposed as a criminal three times over?

    Better technology? Yeah, so why is Superman still alive?
    Because he is Superman!!

    Luthor greastest weakness besides his hatred for the man of steel is hubris. That's why he didn't believe Clark Kent and Superman were the same person.
    Luthor hasn't get his way because of hubris and Superman.

  8. #98
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abhilegend
    Twisting facts isn't going by comics.
    Really? You're the one who said that Superman didn't lose his powers right away in "Superman & The Legion Of Super-Heroes", when it's blatantly not true. Which also doesn't change that you are a rabid Superman fan who cannot accept that Superman loses and could very well lose to Batman. You might want to read this.

    Considering it has never happened in main continuity and superman kicked that dirty rodent's ass several times, there is no need for me to make excuses like you do. "Story, plot, bad writing, bitching, blah, blah, sob, sob" that's your entire argument.
    I wasn't talking about it happening, I was talking about the potential for it.

    Just before giving Batman the ring, Superman said: "Paraphrasing"There have been enemies who had tried to control me due to my great power. If I ever become a threat I want the only mean to stop me to be in the hands of the only man I would trust with my life.... It was all about mind control or Superman somehow becoming a threat.
    The exact words were..."I have many enemies of great power. There are beings who have tried to subvert my will, control me. They have never completely succeeded...but I live in fear that, someday, they might. If that should ever happen, if I should ever lose control, there would be only one sure way to stop me." He was talking about not only what Brainiac, Amazing Grace, Darkseid and Sleeze had done, but also about the whole Gangbuster stint. It wasn't just mind control, but loss of control of his own self. That's why Jurgens story didn't involve mind control, but Clark's greatest fear, which was losing control and going rogue.

    Did Superman need Batman to decide to leave earth during exile? No. They gave the kryptonite to Batman so he could have an edge over Superman... Cheer fanboyism.
    He gave him the ring because he wanted someone who would pull the trigger. Diana wouldn't. Arthur wouldn't. Hal wouldn't. Bruce would. That's why at that point the World's Finest team was truly reborn. That story was written before Batman became what he is now. Before the Bat God. Before prep time.

    That whole story Dark Knight over Metropolis was quite good until that moment. By the way Not once did they have Superman using his super speed so Batman didn't look bad.
    Superman hardly uses super speed unless it's traveling or having to get somewhere in a hurry. Most of his fights are normal speed.

    Man of Steel 3 was beyond pathetic... Macpie of all people... Come on dude.
    I wasn't talking about threats. You said that Superman didn't go to Gotham, I proved that he did.

    And most of those appearances were in Superman books.
    Superman appeared in Batman #428 and 429. You also didn't say in Batman books, you said Gotham.

    No Man's Land was a joke as well. They come up with a bullshit reason for Superman not to everything by himself.
    It was the same reason that Superman didn't rebuild all of Metropolis following Action Comics #700. You might want to re-read Adventures Of Superman #522.

    It is you who must pay attention to the things you type. You claim to really like Superman but everytime he's compared to other characters: Batman specifically you side with that said character. Every single time.
    Which doesn't mean that I love Batman over Superman. It means that if we are ever to take human threats like Lex Luthor or Batman seriously, then there has to be a threat credibility for them. Otherwise, what's the point of having Lex as Superman's arch nemesis?

    Because at that time Superman was weaker and kryptonite was the one tool he could use to cause him more harm. But Kryptonite has never been the only tool at Lex's disposal.
    But it's been the main one that Lex has gone after, regardless of how powerful Superman was. He may have deviated by using that satellite to cause Clark's powers to go out of control, trying to manipulate Brainiac to use his powers or created Bizarro and Brawl. But at the end of the day, Lex kept hunting for Kryptonite. And even when he had other weapons like the red sun flamethrower and the warship, he still used Kryptonite as his weapon of choice. The last twenty years before the reboot he had Bloodsport, the Parasite, Metallo, Reactron, the Battle Armor and other Kryptonite based weapons. He used that more than he did anything else.

    Because he is Superman!!
    Yet, Lex was unable to create the means that worked like Bruce did. The watch was successful. The synthetic Kryptonite as well.

    Luthor greastest weakness besides his hatred for the man of steel is hubris. That's why he didn't believe Clark Kent and Superman were the same person.
    Luthor hasn't get his way because of hubris and Superman.
    Yes, but you said Lex was smarter than Batman. Obviously, he's not.

  9. #99
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    Because Batman had Superman's collaboration. Without Superman trusting him, he would've never accomplished those things. By synthetic kryptonite you mean the red-k used by Ra's Al Ghull during Tower Of Babel? Because during King Of The World the synthetic K didn't work.



    Lex is smarter than Batman... By a lot. It's just that Batman has had some advantages (Due to Superman's closeness)

  10. #100
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    Because Batman had Superman's collaboration. Without Superman trusting him, he would've never accomplished those things. By synthetic kryptonite you mean the red-k used by Ra's Al Ghull during Tower Of Babel? Because during King Of The World the synthetic K didn't work.
    Batman didn't have the synthetic Kryptonite in "King Of The World". It was that event that prompted him to create it.

    Lex is smarter than Batman... By a lot. It's just that Batman has had some advantages (Due to Superman's closeness)
    How can you see that Batman isn't as smart as Lex? We've seen the technology Bruce created. There were periods when both relied on others to build technology for their use. Hell, Batman's tech works because he's captured criminals with it or reached whatever destination he's had in mind. Lex's doesn't work because he cannot kill Superman. Much less hurt him long term. A good example is the synthetic Kryptonite. Batman was able to make it pretty easily. Lex couldn't even do that much.

    But as it is, let's ask this question. If you cannot take Batman seriously as a threat to Superman, then by that rationale, do you take Lex seriously as a threat to Superman? If you say yes to Lex over Batman, then you show bias. Because both are the same. Both are brilliant inventors and are powerless. Both know Superman's weakness and in the past, both had access to it. The only difference is motivation for trying to stop Superman. So, how can Lex be a threat and not Batman? If you say no to Lex being a threat, as well as Batman, then doesn't that make Lex worthless as an adversary?
    Last edited by Mat001; 07-22-2012 at 11:27 AM.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Batman didn't have the synthetic Kryptonite in "King Of The World". It was that event that prompted him to create it.



    How can you see that Batman isn't as smart as Lex? We've seen the technology Bruce created. There were periods when both relied on others to build technology for their use. Hell, Batman's tech works because he's captured criminals with it or reached whatever destination he's had in mind. Lex's doesn't work because he cannot kill Superman. Much less hurt him long term. A good example is the synthetic Kryptonite. Batman was able to make it pretty easily. Lex couldn't even do that much.

    But as it is, let's ask this question. If you cannot take Batman seriously as a threat to Superman, then by that rationale, do you take Lex seriously as a threat to Superman? If you say yes to Lex over Batman, then you show bias. Because both are the same. Both are brilliant inventors and are powerless. Both know Superman's weakness and in the past, both had access to it. The only difference is motivation for trying to stop Superman. So, how can Lex be a threat and not Batman? If you say no to Lex being a threat, as well as Batman, then doesn't that make Lex worthless as an adversary?
    He did have synt-k during the king of the world saga it just didn't work. Batman attempted to use it just after Superman KOed Kyle Ryner by smashing through his constructs. Superman told him: Our "little democracy" in the moon is as useless as you synthetic kryptonite and then proceded to kick Batman's ass. In that same issue Lex tried to kill Superman by nuking him when the man of steel and his super robots stole the nuclear arsenal of the entire planet.


    Lex is smarter than Batman (Project everyman nuff said)

    Lex is a threat to Superman because he's also a threat to the world. Lex's greed and selfishness... The things he represents are completely opposite to Superman. One on one... All of Lex's resources against Superman there's no contest Superman could just kill Lex and get done with it. But it's not about that. It's about principles and ideas. About setting an example. Killing Lex won't help our social development which is Superman ultimate goal. Bruce Wayne aka Batman can't be a threat to Superman because he's not a selfish bastard out to make a quick buck with the suffering of others.

  12. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Francisco View Post
    The whole point of that story was bat-wanking. Superman doesn't need anybody to keep him in check. He's got Lois, Ma and Pa Kent, Jimmy. If Superman ever gets mindcontrolled he will always manage to free himself because he's got great willpower and has great goodness inside that won't allow him to do evil. Batman is pointless in Superman's world. Haven't you noticed how they never allow Superman to go to Gotham? Yet Batman always finds his way to Metropolis? They know Gotham has no challenge for the Man of steel. Seriously dude, stop pretending you like Superman.


    Lex Luthor has more going for him than just Kryptonite. To the world he's a respected bussinessman and scientist. NO to mention the metahuman henchmen at his service. Also Lex is way smarter than Batman and has way better technology.
    that's superman wanking. Its smart of him to give batman a ring in case he gets mindcontrolled and not to family members who shouldn't be fighting crime.
    FAdam K- How do you read comics and sit around on this board and not know who Gorilla Man is after the last couple of years??

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  13. #103

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    I love the DKOM story. When Clark gives him the ring I never took it as "here is an instant win button" but as him saying if anyone ever gets ultimate mind control or i go red kryptonite crazy then use the ring and "do your best to stop me"

  14. #104
    Man of tomorrow abhilegend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Really? You're the one who said that Superman didn't lose his powers right away in "Superman & The Legion Of Super-Heroes", when it's blatantly not true. Which also doesn't change that you are a rabid Superman fan who cannot accept that Superman loses and could very well lose to Batman. You might want to read this.
    No, I was right as he spent some time under that sun when the legion were searching for him and not untill the bullet went right through his hand, he realized that his powers were gone as opposite to the fact that he almost instantly realizes when he was depowered by red sunlight before. I'm not a rabid fanboy, I'm just a realist who knows that objectively batman can't beat superman in a fight. I'm not saying superman is a better character than batman because of that, but usual batman fanboy butthurt stops you from realizing that. Its the internet, I can make a list of reasons why superman is better than batman. If he was so better than why did superman outsold that dirty rodent for nearly 50 years?



    I wasn't talking about it happening, I was talking about the potential for it.
    Nope, he can't beat superman. End of discussion. The sooner you accept it and move on, the better for you.
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  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by abhilegend View Post
    Nope, he can't beat superman. End of discussion. The sooner you accept it and move on, the better for you.
    Batman can beat Superman... If he just stands there and let's him do whatever he wants.

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