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  1. #211
    Peachtree St. Irregular Loren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    The motivation was basically the same, why should I stick my neck out. They moved some stuff around, Pete getting cheated out of the bulk of the money earlier, but I still think that was relatively incidental.
    I still like the movie version more because it puts Peter in the position of making an ethical decision, and choosing the somewhat sympathetic but wrong option.

    In the classic version, Peter's walking down the street, encounters a burglar, and yeah, doesn't stick his neck out. But there it's more of a practical decision. He does what most passersby would do: not get involved. In Ultimate Spidey, Bendis had to have another character say that Peter could've tripped the burglar, because otherwise the story seems to fault Peter for not being proactive in stopping a criminal. And at best in this scenario, Peter simply comes off as lazy.

    By contrast, the movie version has Peter make the conscious decision to let the burglar get away. It provides a better, more contained situation where he *should* get involved, and he doesn't. Peter lets the burglar go not out of laziness, but out of spite and anger. And he lets him go for reasons the audience can empathize with in the moment. He's not simply inactive; he makes a wrong ethical decision, for personal reasons. And Uncle Ben dies as a result. The lesson Peter learns isn't just to be more proactive and less lazy; it's to be a better man.

    But you're right, making the burglar a car jacker was SOOOOOOO much a better plot point.
    It also allows Peter a final moment with the dying Ben. Which isn't necessarily better, but it's a good emotional beat.

    Which they then fucked up in the third movie, but that's the third movie.
    Spoiler for "The Dark Knight Rises": Bane turns out to be Joe Chill's previously-unseen mugger friend who helped him escape after killing the Waynes.

  2. #212
    Cat smells like fish StoneGold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike-X View Post
    So it looks like Marvel are relaunching a whole bunch of their major titles, and adding a few more.

    What a startlingly original idea.
    So what they did around, say, Avengers Disassembled.
    The Punisher: Iím going to cauterize your rectum, sealing it shut, so when you turn those delicious Pink Pantsô Fruit Pies into waste products the bilirubin in your feces will leach into your bloodstream and youíll die screaming! And Iíll watch while having sex with this grateful prostitute!

    Trussed-Up Hooker: Blueberry are my favorite!

    In other words, what StoneGold said.
    -Expletive Deleted

    Check out my travel site, Geekations.com

  3. #213
    Cat smells like fish StoneGold's Avatar
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    So I'm running twitter for a reality show. Someone said it was more than epic. I just retweeted that it was >>>>>> Gilgamesh. I'm wondering if I am overestimating the education level of some of the viewers with that one.
    The Punisher: Iím going to cauterize your rectum, sealing it shut, so when you turn those delicious Pink Pantsô Fruit Pies into waste products the bilirubin in your feces will leach into your bloodstream and youíll die screaming! And Iíll watch while having sex with this grateful prostitute!

    Trussed-Up Hooker: Blueberry are my favorite!

    In other words, what StoneGold said.
    -Expletive Deleted

    Check out my travel site, Geekations.com

  4. #214

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    Looking at the story now, Sumerian Hell is more grim than I remembered.

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    So what they did around, say, Avengers Disassembled.
    I'm sure it won't be that bad.

  5. #215
    Too late Nick Soapdish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren View Post
    With as much love as Hollywood has for trilogies these days, perhaps they should notice what a lot of the great movie blockbuster trilogies had in common. Star Wars. Indiana Jones. Back to the Future. Nolan's Batman, presumably. All of them had first installments that were complete products unto themselves. The same is true of less-great trilogies that had good starts: X-Men, Alien, Blade, Jurassic Park.

    Hinting at a sequel or setting up the pieces in the event of a sequel is one thing. But failing to put together a complete narrative, in the expectation that there will be another $200-million movie to tie up those loose ends, is not good fiction.
    LotR is the only exception that I can think of and I think that most people knew what they were getting into with that. I say "most people" because one of my sisters was pretty disappointed by the non-ending in the first. But the movie helped turn her into a fantasy geek.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loren View Post
    I still like the movie version more because it puts Peter in the position of making an ethical decision, and choosing the somewhat sympathetic but wrong option.

    In the classic version, Peter's walking down the street, encounters a burglar, and yeah, doesn't stick his neck out. But there it's more of a practical decision. He does what most passersby would do: not get involved. In Ultimate Spidey, Bendis had to have another character say that Peter could've tripped the burglar, because otherwise the story seems to fault Peter for not being proactive in stopping a criminal. And at best in this scenario, Peter simply comes off as lazy.

    By contrast, the movie version has Peter make the conscious decision to let the burglar get away. It provides a better, more contained situation where he *should* get involved, and he doesn't. Peter lets the burglar go not out of laziness, but out of spite and anger. And he lets him go for reasons the audience can empathize with in the moment. He's not simply inactive; he makes a wrong ethical decision, for personal reasons. And Uncle Ben dies as a result. The lesson Peter learns isn't just to be more proactive and less lazy; it's to be a better man.
    I hadn't really thought about the changes in the Raimi origin, but I did like that part better than I expected. I was expecting to just be bored by a re-telling so maybe pat of that was just that it was different.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loren View Post
    Spoiler for "The Dark Knight Rises": Bane turns out to be Joe Chill's previously-unseen mugger friend who helped him escape after killing the Waynes.
    Argh! Spoiler tags! Now, the movie is going to be ruined for me. Ruined!!!

  6. #216
    Duck Dude Donald M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneGold View Post
    So I'm running twitter for a reality show. Someone said it was more than epic. I just retweeted that it was >>>>>> Gilgamesh. I'm wondering if I am overestimating the education level of some of the viewers with that one.
    Maybe, but the beauty (and tragedy) of the internet is that if someone doesn't get your reference, they can always google it.

  7. #217
    Cat smells like fish StoneGold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coveredinbees View Post
    Looking at the story now, Sumerian Hell is more grim than I remembered.


    I'm sure it won't be that bad.
    Hey, it launched Ellis on Iron Man, Brubaker on Cap, eventually JMS on Thor.
    The Punisher: Iím going to cauterize your rectum, sealing it shut, so when you turn those delicious Pink Pantsô Fruit Pies into waste products the bilirubin in your feces will leach into your bloodstream and youíll die screaming! And Iíll watch while having sex with this grateful prostitute!

    Trussed-Up Hooker: Blueberry are my favorite!

    In other words, what StoneGold said.
    -Expletive Deleted

    Check out my travel site, Geekations.com

  8. #218
    Duck Dude Donald M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loren View Post
    Spoiler for "The Dark Knight Rises": Bane turns out to be Joe Chill's previously-unseen mugger friend who helped him escape after killing the Waynes.
    Heh.

    Regarding that particular plot point in Spider-Man 3, I kind of get why they did it. The sick daughter as his primary motivation made Sandman too sympathetic, so they needed a reason for Spider-Man to hate him rather than just find out about the girl and want to find a way to help Sandman make some money legitimately. (Is it just me, or would having Spidey find out about Sandy's little girl and scream, "I've got it, lets' put on a show!" have made for a better movie than what we got?)

    Seriously though, the problem with Sandman as a character in Spidey 3 begins with the daughter. There should be no daughter. I guess the decision was made that a cheap, low-ambition thug suddenly finding himself with superpowers wasn't an interesting enough concept, but I see that as a failure of imagination on the part of the writer(s). Therein lies an arc that could have easily carried the whole film without having to shoehorn in two other villains, one that could have been portrayed as sort of an inverse of Spider-Man's own origin. Especially if they had Sandman, after getting his powers, initially try to do good only to mess up somehow or get mistaken for a bad guy and then say fuck it, let's rob some banks.
    Last edited by Donald M.; 07-03-2012 at 11:23 PM.

  9. #219
    They call me Mr. Pip! the4thpip's Avatar
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    Will get home from Vacation on Saturday, running in a charity race (just 5.5 kilometers) on Sunday and have the third date with the hunky Marvel zombie on Tuesday...
    My blog.

    We struggled against apartheid in South Africa, supported by people the world over, because black people were being blamed and made to suffer for something we could do nothing about; our very skins. It is the same with sexual orientation. It is a given.
    - Desmond Tutu

    Getting married? Check http://www.fandgweddings.com/

  10. #220
    RIP Ronnie James Dio Deathstroke's Avatar
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    Well I was supposed to have practice with my boys basketball team at 9 am this morning but it is raining/drizzling here at the moment so I don't think that is going to happen.
    I'm on Twitter

    "I can't complain. I got to be Jim Morrison for the first half of my life, and Ward Cleaver for the second half." - Warren Zevon.

  11. #221
    CotM Member Puma's Avatar
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    Morning people.

    Parade later this morning, then barbecue.
    What have I always believed? That, on the whole, and by and large, if a person lived properly, not according to what any priests said, but according to what seemed decent and honest inside, then it would, at the end, more or less, turn out ok.

    "In 1996, I was 36. And you're still a frothing moonbat." ~Paradox

  12. #222
    ... snarkbunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puma View Post
    Morning people.

    Parade later this morning, then barbecue.
    Happy 4th of July for all of you South of the Border. May you have a marvelous day celebrating the US.


    I've officially accepted a job in Vancouver starting mid-August so now I am in the midst of chaotic preparations to move. How are everyone else's jobhunts going?

  13. #223
    CotM Member Puma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snarkbunny View Post
    Happy 4th of July for all of you South of the Border. May you have a marvelous day celebrating the US.


    I've officially accepted a job in Vancouver starting mid-August so now I am in the midst of chaotic preparations to move. How are everyone else's jobhunts going?
    Big congrats!
    What have I always believed? That, on the whole, and by and large, if a person lived properly, not according to what any priests said, but according to what seemed decent and honest inside, then it would, at the end, more or less, turn out ok.

    "In 1996, I was 36. And you're still a frothing moonbat." ~Paradox

  14. #224
    CotM Member Puma's Avatar
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    I am obviously a bad American. I like the 4th of July, I like independence, and I respect the steps the Founders took in creating this country; but damn, I am tired of the "rah rah" support our troops posts on FB right now.
    What have I always believed? That, on the whole, and by and large, if a person lived properly, not according to what any priests said, but according to what seemed decent and honest inside, then it would, at the end, more or less, turn out ok.

    "In 1996, I was 36. And you're still a frothing moonbat." ~Paradox

  15. #225
    Hey, brother. Matt Algren's Avatar
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    Since I'd really rather not post in the thread started by troll #4532812, here's the best episode of The Andy Griffith Show.



    You're welcome.




    (Gomer got back.)

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