Classic super villains you plain dislike

[dan bailey]

Well, yeah...the trippiness of Ditko's imagry in Doctor Strange definitely resonated with the burgeoning hippie crowd in the mid-'60s, many of whom just naturally assumed that Ditko was frequently "turning on" (to use the parlance of the day). Of course, nothing could've been further from the truth.

Reminiscent of how the counterculture seized on Stranger in a Strange Land as something of a holy text. Heinlein, of course, was pretty much sf's version of Ditko, sociopolitically speaking, except almost certainly even farther to the right.

By the way, here's a nice shot of David Crosby of The Byrds (who, along with The Charlatans, were arguably the earliest counter-culture band) in 1965, reading a copy of the Avengers...

If memory serves, his later bandmate Graham Nash was quite the fan & collector, not only of comics but also original art.

And supposedly, the first time Jerry Garcia came into fairly serious money, he used a big chunk of it to acquire every EC he didn't have.

[dan bailey]

the nerdy-looking Sivana with big glasses

... looks a whole lot like the late pedophile-enabling Joe Paterno, unfortunately, if Sivana had hair. (Doesn't he have a son who does?)

*shudder*

[The Confessor]

Reminiscent of how the counterculture seized on Stranger in a Strange Land as something of a holy text. Heinlein, of course, was pretty much sf's version of Ditko, sociopolitically speaking, except almost certainly even farther to the right.

Quite so...and in another David Crosby-centric coincidence, two Crosby-penned outtake songs by The Byrds explicitly reference Heinlein's book; the first being "Stranger In A Strange Land" from the Turn! Turn! Turn! album sessions and the second being The Notorious Byrd Brothers outtake "Triad", the lyrics of which make mention of "water brothers". The hardcore hippies amongst us (that'll be Rob Allen and me then!) will know that "Triad" was eventually recorded by Jefferson Airplane and released on their Crown Of Creation album in 1968 (listen here), while Blackburn & Snow released a version of "Stranger In A Strange Land" in 1966 (listen here).

If memory serves, his later bandmate Graham Nash was quite the fan & collector, not only of comics but also original art.

I have heard this before actually, possibly on this board.

And supposedly, the first time Jerry Garcia came into fairly serious money, he used a big chunk of it to acquire every EC he didn't have.

I didn't know this though. Interesting stuff, dan.

[wu-tang warrior]

I wouldnt call this guy classic or super but I just remembered Prof Power. I saw him in Spect. Spider-Man, some X-men were there too. He wore this nasty orange suit, I don't even know his powers. But his base was a friggin floating castle, right there in the middle of NYC a floating castle, and inside the castle was an army of trojan soldiers. I have no idea what a prof. power and a flying castle and trojans had to do with each other. JM Dematteis/Sal Buscema had a great run on this title but this weak/wack. Actually right after this they did the Harry Osbourne death, for the right way to kill off an arch-enemy read that.

I got to take up for Apocolypse a little bit. Yeah he got hyped up to get beat down but he had a big role in a lot of major x-men legend. He turned Angel to Archangel. He infected Cyclops baby so he pretty much created Cable and Stryfe. He helped save Prof.X in x-cutioners song. At the end of which Stryfe's legacy virus was released which was kind of a big deal in the marvel universe so he had a hand in that too. But yeah, he got his butt kick a lot too.

[LEADER DESSLOK]

...Right, but of course the whole underground comix boom came a little later on in the decade. Prior to that, a lot of the collegiate bohemians that made up the latter-day Beat Generation or proto-hippies were attracted to Marvel comics for its increased realism, Pop Art pizzazz and, as previously stated, its trippy visuals and cosmic concepts. Mind you, I'm sure that many folks in that scene also read DC comics, but it was undoubtedly Marvel that caught that generation's imagination the most.

Of course, young kids made up the lion's share of Marvel's readership, but adult readers in their late teens and early 20s were by no means a niche audience for Marvel in the mid to late '60s.






As others have pointed out, the song you're referring to is "Sunshine Superman" by Donovan. Interestingly, "Sunshine Superman" is a firm contender for the title of "First Ever Psychedelic Pop Song", along with The Byrds' "Eight Miles High" (which is the true holder of that title IMO). So again, we have a srong connection between comics -- though DC in this case -- and the hippie/psychedelic scene.

What's more, those purveyors of psychedelically inclined political activism, Country Joe & The Fish, had a number of songs that referenced such Marvel Comics characters as Spider-Man, the Fantastic Four, Daredevil and the Masked Marauder. I promise you, there really is a connection between the American '60s counter-culture and Marvel comics of the period. I'm not just making this stuff up!






Actually, from a number of different sources over the years -- I've read a LOT about the history of the '60s hippie movement, both in the U.S. and in Britain. I know that's a bit vague, but two books that I specifically recall going into some depth about Marvel comics' impact on the counter-culture are Rhino's Psychedelic Trip by Alan Bisbort and Parke Puterbaugh, and Charles Perry's indispensible history of the San Francisco Bay Area hippie scene, The Haight Ashbury: A History.

By the way, here's a nice shot of David Crosby of The Byrds (who, along with The Charlatans, were arguably the earliest counter-culture band) in 1965, reading a copy of the Avengers...









Wow! Great find, dan! I don't think I've ever seen a photograph of the poster for that event. Looks a lot like it was drawn by George Hunter of The Charlatans to me.

EDIT: Nope! Just Googled it and I'm completely wrong...it's actually drawn by Alton Kelley.

Thanks for the info! I am very interested in the Flower Power Movement because a good chunk of my favorite music is from that era. Most of what I know about it comes from documentaries, Crumb Comics and Billy Jack movies! There's also a friend of mine who actually hated that movement as he was more attracted to the New York scene of Andy Warhol and the Velvet Underground! I've often wondered why The Animals' version of "The House Of The Rising Sun" isn't considered the first psychedelic song with its "otherworldly" sound. Or perhaps they consider it the first "Goth" song?

Thanks again!

[The Confessor]

Thanks for the info! I am very interested in the Flower Power Movement because a good chunk of my favorite music is from that era.

Likewise.

There's also a friend of mine who actually hated that movement as he was more attracted to the New York scene of Andy Warhol and the Velvet Underground!

Yeah, that particular scene was pretty much the antithesis of flower power but personally, I like the Velvet Underground a lot too.

I've often wondered why The Animals' version of "The House Of The Rising Sun" isn't considered the first psychedelic song with its "otherworldly" sound. Or perhaps they consider it the first "Goth" song?

It's definitely considered an important song in the development of folk rock, along with other early '60s folk influenced pop such as The Beatles' "I'm A Loser" and various songs by the Beau Brummels and Jackie DeShannon. Proto-folk rock is the handle most suitable for it I guess.

The first proper folk rock song, however, was The Byrds' cover of Bob Dylan's "Mr. Tambourine Man", in so far as it was the record that started off the whole folk rock craze of 1965-1967 and established the template for many other folk rock groups (The Turtles, Love, Sonny & Cher etc).

[Ish Kabbible]

The 60s counter-culture and the connection with comics deserves its own thread. This is the era I grew up and was totally immersed along with the secret agent craze that was concurrent with the times (Bond, Man from UNCLE, Get Smart etc). DC was clueless with what was gong on in the youth market since all their writers were from the prior generation (read a Teen Titans book from the 60s- godawful). But Marvel was cool with Dr. Strange, Spider-Man,Silver Surfer,Kirby mindblowing montages and it all culminated with the spectacular Jim Steranko psychedelic Nick Fury)
And don't forget John Lennon's mention of Captain Marvel on the Beatles Whie Album

[dan bailey]

And don't forget John Lennon's mention of Captain Marvel on the Beatles Whie Album

Not sure when "Bungalow Bill" was written, but it was recorded in October 1968, at which time Marvel Super-Heroes #12 was less than a year old & the s/t series would've been out around 8 issues. I've always assumed the reference was to the Fawcett hero, though given the existence of Marvelman I have no idea what sort of presence that character would've had in the UK when Lennon was a kid.

[Ish Kabbible]

Not sure when "Bungalow Bill" was written, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't before Marvel Super-Heroes came out. I've always assumed the reference was to the Fawcett hero.

You're assumption is correct since Lennon grew up in England reading the Captain Marvel reprints before they changed it to Marvelman. The Beatles White album was released at the end of 1968.
As an aside, I remember purchasing the album within days of its release. There was a rumour going around that if you peel off the plain white front cover of the album, underneath was a nude photo of John and Yoko. The rumour alas was false.

[dan bailey]

The rumour alas was false.

Given the cover of Two Virgins, released the same month, I think that "alas" might be misplaced ...

[dan bailey]

Drat! Double post.

[MDG]

The 60s counter-culture and the connection with comics deserves its own thread. This is the era I grew up and was totally immersed along with the secret agent craze that was concurrent with the times (Bond, Man from UNCLE, Get Smart etc).

To go off-topic a little, I've been fascinated lately by the volume of "spy" movies that came in the wake of Bond in the Goldfinger/Thunderball era. Found it very interesting that U.S. produced movies tended to play up the comic/horndog aspects of the characters (Derek Flint, Matt Helm), while British movies were much more serious and played up the moral questions of the spy game (the Harry Palmer films, When Eight Bells Toll, Spy Who Came in from the Cold...) Pluis a whole passel of Italian spy movies that can go totally off the wall.

DC was clueless with what was gong on in the youth market since all their writers were from the prior generation (read a Teen Titans book from the 60s- godawful). But Marvel was cool with Dr. Strange, Spider-Man,Silver Surfer,Kirby mindblowing montages and it all culminated with the spectacular Jim Steranko psychedelic Nick Fury)

I think the DC editors might've been conservative, but I wish i knew more about the writers. Alvin Schwartz (I believe) lived Greenwich Village in hung out with people like Jackson Pollack; John Broome addresses the reader directly in one book and Infantino draws him looking like a beatnik; plus these were all guys who chose to work freelance as opposed to getting "real" jobs.

The definitive book on DC in the 60s has yet to be written....

[GavinR]

Probably based on the legendary "Butcher Cover". I actually had an opportunity to buy a copy but it was just too damn expensive and the person who took of the replacement cover did a bad job so I was sure it wasn't worth it.

[Rob Allen]

Reminiscent of how the counterculture seized on Stranger in a Strange Land as something of a holy text. Heinlein, of course, was pretty much sf's version of Ditko, sociopolitically speaking, except almost certainly even farther to the right.

Well, RAH was a libertarian, and Ditko an Objectivist. I'm not going to try to figure out who's to the right of who. They're both further to the right than I can see. The counterculture embraced SiaSL because of the sexual freedom it portrayed.

The hardcore hippies amongst us (that'll be Rob Allen and me then!) will know that "Triad" was eventually recorded by Jefferson Airplane and released on their Crown Of Creation album in 1968 (listen here), while Blackburn & Snow released a version of "Stranger In A Strange Land" in 1966 (listen here).

I may have the long hair and read trippy comics and listen to the Dead, but I didn't know about these songs. I read "Stranger in a Strange Land" at a pretty young age, before I tuned in to rock music. Thanks!

Wasn't that song by Donovan, titled "Sunshine Superman"?

According to this site: http://www.lysergia.com/LamaWorkshop...sychedelia.htm , that song was recorded on my 9th birthday but not released until much later. The Byrds recorded "Eight Miles High" three days later.

And someone else mentioned "House of the Rising Sun". I recently learned that that song can be sung to the tune of "Amazing Grace", and vice-versa. An even weirder pair of songs that can be interchanged: "Good King Wenceslas" and "Lullaby of Broadway".

[foxley]

Is it just me, or have we wandered an awfully long way from supervillains we dislike?