Ultimates #12 Spoilers/Discussion

[Desaad]

I don't think the inspiration is Orson Scott Card's mini. I think the inspiration is Warren Ellis' Extremis which is apparently the basis of the Iron Man 3 movie. In the context of Extremis, Tony Stark's new powers are quite understandable.

That is not good storytelling. Had this been the mainstream MU it still would have been bad storytelling. That it was in another universe entirely makes it totally irrelevant.

[jphamlore]

That is not good storytelling. Had this been the mainstream MU it still would have been bad storytelling. That it was in another universe entirely makes it totally irrelevant.

The ending of Ultimate Ultimates #12 is perfectly consistent with the storylines of previous Ultimates arcs
as I wrote many months ago:

I contend that Ultimate Tony Stark is the most dominant comic character of recent times.

Just look at Hickman's opening pages of Ultimate Ultimates #3, where after the horrendous tragedy of the Children of Tomorrow wiping out the Asgardian gods the previous issue, perhaps for all time, suddenly there is the playful voice of Tony Stark speaking as if life was designed simply for him to play with.

I think I may have read this idea on another blog somewhere so it's hardly new, but similar to those who somewhat in jest suggest that Franklin Richards' desire to stay young is what runs the mainstream Marvel Universe, one could almost consider almost the entire Ultimate universe as being Tony Stark's wish-fulfillment fantasy.

Stark starts out not about to be that great a fighter, so here comes an extremely masculine throwback version of Captain America to fight alongside him. Tony Stark is the most moral of characters, why he can even work nominally under the command of an African-American, the Ultimate Nick Fury (although Fury also gets to be assigned all of the morally ambiguous work). Stark gets the sleep with the most beguiling dangerous women such as Black Widow and then there's a convenient reason in the story for him to dump them and move on to another hottie.

Tony Stark can easily hang with extraterrestrials. And if there's trouble, who knows what incredible version of Iron Man Stark has just waiting to be called in such as in Ultimates 2.

What Tony Stark can't or won't build can apparently be attributed to Stark's own blood, his own brother, and Tony Stark gets to be the survivor.

But Tony Stark is about to do something that no other version of him gets to do in other versions of the Marvel Universe: it appears that he is about to own Reed Richards, and not just any Reed Richards, a Reed Richards who has had in effect a thousand-year head start in developing technology and genetics and with Richards own army. This originating character of Reed Richards in Hickman's own mainstream Marvel depictions of the Fantastic Four in some realities wields the Infinity Gauntlet, battles Celestials, forms a Council of Reeds.

Already in Ultimate Ultimates #3, Iron Man is battered some but survives easily an assault by the Children of Tomorrow, the same ones who recently trashed the Asgardian gods including Odin without much problem.

Enjoy the ride, Iron Man fans, never has a character dominated an entire line of comics like Ultimate Tony Stark is doing, and appears will do for the foreseeable future.

[Desaad]

Nothing in your post in any way justifies this deus ex machina reveal.

[Balfro]

Nothing in your post in any way justifies this deus ex machina reveal.

How about the possibility that Anthony could one day turn on Tony and then he'd have a self-conflict of a great magnitude? Something that powerful won't want to be contained forever.

[crimsonspider89]

Or perhaps Anthony takes over Tony and turns him into a temporary villain? Could see it happen. Also Tony's new armor I guarantee abuses Anthony and Children tech.

[Genisstorm]

I'm pretty sure adding just lightning doesn't make a storm a hurricane but whatever. Anyways I agree on the "I love you" part. It's not believable. It's been a thousand years for one thing. ANd now he has become a Magneto .

Actually thats the one thing I thought was believable. Its been made abundently clear that because of his background reed is emotionally stunted. In the years hes been in that "darwin bubble" hes probably romanticised his relationship with sue to be something its not while Sue, conversely(we see this in the ultimate secret story ), realized the traits that attracted her to reed were never really his to begin with. Hes still just a little boy that got his heartbroken. I just wish the situation was handled better than how clunky it was.

[Desaad]

How about the possibility that Anthony could one day turn on Tony and then he'd have a self-conflict of a great magnitude? Something that powerful won't want to be contained forever.

Oh hey, look, I'm not even decrying the turn.

This isn't an issue of me saying "Wow, what a silly development!". Sentient brain tumor? Hell yes, that's an interesting concept and I look forward to seeing it play out.

My issue is the way it was introduced -- or wasn't. A sentient brain tumor with the ability to interface with/control technology is just too convenient and too out of NOWHERE. There was no real foreshadowing, no basis for this tumor having a sentience or these abilities in the arc itself...nothing.

It's not that I am against the idea. It's just that it's pretty crappy to have your main character (or one of your main characters) develop exactly the right superpower he needs to win the day at exactly the right time to save the world when everything seemed impossible.

There was no clever way for them to resolve this storyline. So they just came up with something completely random. May as well have had Tony Stark reveal that every car, truck or emergency service vehicle in the United States was in fact a refugee of Cybertron who had been seeking asylum in the US.

[Balfro]

Oh hey, look, I'm not even decrying the turn.

This isn't an issue of me saying "Wow, what a silly development!". Sentient brain tumor? Hell yes, that's an interesting concept and I look forward to seeing it play out.

My issue is the way it was introduced -- or wasn't. A sentient brain tumor with the ability to interface with/control technology is just too convenient and too out of NOWHERE. There was no real foreshadowing, no basis for this tumor having a sentience or these abilities in the arc itself...nothing.

It's not that I am against the idea. It's just that it's pretty crappy to have your main character (or one of your main characters) develop exactly the right superpower he needs to win the day at exactly the right time to save the world when everything seemed impossible.

There was no clever way for them to resolve this storyline. So they just came up with something completely random. May as well have had Tony Stark reveal that every car, truck or emergency service vehicle in the United States was in fact a refugee of Cybertron who had been seeking asylum in the US.

I think this ability qualifies to be in my CONVENIENT POWERS thread from a while back. So far Jimmy was the pinnacle of convenient abilities but Tony is up there now too.

[Sparrowsabre7]

Well, while the giant Hulk vs Giant Iron Man was nearly up there with Hulk pills in ideas that seem cool, but should be relegated to fanfic, I mostly liked the issue. City turning on Reed was great and although the ending was a little abrupt and Anthony was underexplained (something which will hopefully be further elucidated in later issues) I think it was a fitting conclusion. A finale does not always need a big all-out brawl, so the fact this one basically didn't was pretty satisfying in its own way.

[Plawsky]

Well he's already like 100% brain tissue, isn't he? I recall that from the Orson Scott Card mini.

Anyway, it's the nature of the reveal as a 'solve everything' that I dislike, not the turn that Tony was a mutant.

It's the worst of the Silver Age Superman style storytelling, where the character just develops the exact super power he needs to win the day at the last minute.

I'm saying there should have been some foreshadowing of this.

The talking tumor showed up in issue #10. Is that not enough foreshadowing?

[Celestin]

The talking tumor showed up in issue #10. Is that not enough foreshadowing?

No. When you pull out this kind of solution to defeat the villain you were building up since before this series started, it should get more foreshadowing. For one they could clarify what is status of Tony as superhuman, because after Millar's retcon I was assuming that he is normal human. Which either is not true or his tumor is not normal which should be hinted somehow before it was needed to beat Reed. And there should be mentions about techkinesis, because right now it's very convenient power to have without any explanation.

[Codah]

The status of Tony's brain body was undetermined. It's been said on here before that the TV show in Ultimates only retconned parts of Tony's life and didn't mention the brain thing at all. I agree that the last issue felt rushed but I don't think Tony's ability to interface using Anthony was really a deus ex machina. It was just a matter of forcing all of the story elements in that needed to be in on time.

[Balfro]

Should also mention that the story wasn't really cut off or rushed in the interest of getting to Divided We Fall. Right from the beginning Hickman said that he had the first 12 issues planned out (a 4 issue arc, then a 2 issue arc then a 6 issue arc). Either way this puppy was meant to end in issue 12.

[Robbie_Jee]

How could anyone forget: it was Thor, Sue and a massive Ironman that took down Giant Hulk. What more power do you need??! It was Thor who did the most damage anyway.

Can't wait to see how Captain Britain, She-Hulk and Spiderwoman break out of The Cube.
I bolded the text because everyone seems to be forgetting this. Either that or they don't care. Captain Britain is more powerful than She-Hulk!! Why can't anyone remember that?

Monica and Co are also most probably in The Cube, also.

[Robbie_Jee]

Should also mention that the story wasn't really cut off or rushed in the interest of getting to Divided We Fall. Right from the beginning Hickman said that he had the first 12 issues planned out (a 4 issue arc, then a 2 issue arc then a 6 issue arc). Either way this puppy was meant to end in issue 12.

Then how do you explain Agent Flumm, Fury's disappearance and the rest of the Ultimates being held in captivity? What about all that exposed set up, now being postponed? What about Captain Britain being too powerful for The Cube to hold him? His true strength is currently untapped and way off SHIELD's calculable levels, thus making him even stronger than She-Hulk who is also being held in The Cube.

I'm sorry Balfro, but Hickman's story was rushed. I've been saying it ever since we got just ONE PANEL of the People VS the Children battle.

Still, overall, I liked the issue and the trade should be a good read nonetheless.