It's hard to let go of old favorites but we must try.

[tony ingram]

The Hawkworld reboot did try to make sense of it, Tony, but it still doesn't make for that few years before it, though.

If they had just kept to the original notion of the Hawkworld mini being the revised origin of the Silver Age Katar, but added in the stuff about Paran naming his kid after Carter, it would all have been fine.

[PennyDreadful]

But in the Silver Age, they also kept the Golden Age characters / stories somewhat intact by introducing them on Earth 2.

(Also, there wasn't an internet then for people to go ranting and raving and spreading incorrect information . . . there weren't even comic book stores for people to go to and have fanboy arguements while hanging out.)

This is true. During the Silver Age, they were re-introduced before being inexplicably consigned to limbo for a few years following COIE. (How long were they MIA anyhow?)

[tony ingram]

This is true. During the Silver Age, they were re-introduced before being inexplicably consigned to limbo for a few years following COIE. (How long were they MIA anyhow?)

Summer 1986-July 1992. About six years. Though various writers continued to use them in flashbacks.

[PennyDreadful]

Summer 1986-July 1992. About six years. Though various writers continued to use them in flashbacks.

Which is too long. Weren't they caught in some time loop at one point?

[MajorHoy]

Which is too long. Weren't they caught in some time loop at one point?

They were fighting Ragnarok, over and over and over again and again.

[Mat001]

The problem was that "Hawkworld" was originally intended as the origin point like "Man Of Steel", "Year One" and "Emerald Dawn". But then DC editorial screwed it up by pushing things around. Tony Ingram is right. It wasn't a Crisis problem. Not in the strictest sense. It was a DC editorial problem because had "Hawkworld" been left as is, there would not have been any continuity problems and the stories with Hawkman in "Zero Hour" and "The Return Of Hawkman" would not have been necessary. In other words, DC had a plan and then screwed it up.

The return of the JSA in "Armageddon: Inferno" wrapped up the limbo arc. Carter and Shiera were given slight modifications to their costumes, as seen above, so that it wouldn't conflict with the Thanagarian look.

[glennsim]

Yeah, along with forcing Tom Baker to take part in The Five Doctors, getting DC not to make the mistake with Hawkworld is on my "things to do when I get a time machine" list.

[LEADER DESSLOK]

What "mess", exactly? There was none, as far as I can see. Roy Thomas sorted out the inconsistencies in JSA and Infinity Inc history pretty much straight away, the Hawkman situation, as I said, had nothing to do with COIE and came years later, and the rest of the minor inconsistencies (like the few months in which the Earth One versions of Superman and Batman continued to appear and in which the original Captain Atom showed up in DCCP) were minor teething problems that affected nothing overall. There was no "mess" until, a couple of years later, certain writers and editors stopped going by what had been established since COIE and started making it up as they went along, just as they are doing now!

Precisely, I was an avid DC reader back then (1986) and I was never confused. Until DC went all "Dark and Gritty" and Lord knows what started happening during after that! It seemed as if there was a "Crisis" every couple of years after 1990!

ADDITIONAL NOTE:
As for the Hawkman continuity issues, I was never really a fan of the character so I missed all of the inconsistencies involving that comic. However, I did like him enough to be disgusted by how he was depicted on the JLA animated series (as a crazed stalker) but that's another subject.

[Hawk_fan]

Originally Posted by tony ingram

No. COIE ended in March 1986. The Silver Age Hawkman got his own title again in August 1986 (after the Crisis) and still had his own title until December 1987. He then joined the JLI for awhile, and also appeared in Morrison's Animal Man series and in stories with Byrne's rebooted Superman. The Hawkworld reboot didn't happen until June 1989, and even then it was originally supposed to be a retelling of the origin of the same Katar Hol we were used to. It didn't become apparent this was actually a new character until the Hawkworld ongoing launched in June 1990. All these years later, it's easy to pretend the Hawkman reboot was Crisis related, but it wasn't. It was totally separate. It happened over three years later, after a post-Crisis Silver Age Hawkman series, and there was no in-story connection to COIE at all. No in-story explanation whatsoever, in fact.

What "mess", exactly? There was none, as far as I can see. Roy Thomas sorted out the inconsistencies in JSA and Infinity Inc history pretty much straight away, the Hawkman situation, as I said, had nothing to do with COIE and came years later, and the rest of the minor inconsistencies (like the few months in which the Earth One versions of Superman and Batman continued to appear and in which the original Captain Atom showed up in DCCP) were minor teething problems that affected nothing overall. There was no "mess" until, a couple of years later, certain writers and editors stopped going by what had been established since COIE and started making it up as they went along, just as they are doing now!

I agree.
The two book History of the DC Universe (1986) summed things up quite well after COIE.
There were some "tweaks" that needed to be taking care of after the CRISIS that DC as a whole failed to address.
I thought it was a bad decision to change Wonder Woman's timeline. Yes, Katar was fine until another bad decision by DC.

What became "Clutterverse" is when Didio and crew wanted to integrated Wildstorm, Milestone and Red Circle /MLJ heroes into the "New" Earth.
They wanted a mulitverse back, but how long has it been since we've still seen nothing come of it?
Better had they used Infinite Crisis to just undo COIE and return characters back to their previous respected Earths.
That would've given writers more room to be creative like they've been saying over and over.
What we have now is an - Elseworld - DCU....IMHO. Not for me.

[Mat001]

We have seen the Multiverse. We had "Thy Kingdom Come", "Countdown To Final Crisis", "Final Crisis", "Legion Of 3 Worlds" and "Superman Beyond" between 2007 and 2009. And then we have "Earth-2" and "World's Finest" as ongoing series, plus Grant Morrison's story in Action Comics #9 which featured the Multiverse. So it's been used.

[PennyDreadful]

HAHA! I love this concept. The idea that if you had caught her sitting around reading cleo, or cosmo or girlfriend (magazines with articles like "how to give great oral sex"), you'd not think twice about it, even with all the beef cake men posed in it, but she see's you with an issue of ultimate power & you're all like "awkward." Its such a wonderful double standard.

Dude, plenty of women wouldn't be caught dead reading these magazines without snarking on them.

Besides, the awkwardness of Land's art isn't in the hawt chicks...it's in the crappy pornface-tastic art.

[PennyDreadful]

Believe it or not, i'd love to hear some of those stories. I love to see how people see things within different cultural contexts.

Whats to explain. All you had to say was "well honey, you know those issues of Cleo you read, well the artist of this comic is called Greg Land & he makes up for a lack of artistic talent by tracing images out of magazines like Cleo. Funny how we see things in different contexts based on preprogrammed assumptions we make about media, isn't it. Oh by the way did you read that article on [insert sexist front cover article description from issue of cleo, that for some reason no one will ever point out is sexist]:" An there you're golden.

Wow. People talk about different cultural contexts like this? Dude, that doesn't sound very romantic. But what do I know? I don't read those magazines. And I think there's a difference between well-done, non-crappy cheesecake and crappy cheesecake.

Maybe the girlfriend asked, "What's this crappy art anyway? Chicks actually have HIPS, you know!"