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  1. #31
    SNIKT! davidn15's Avatar
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    And on the topic of manga, any violence you see in an American comic, you'll find the same or worse in a manga aimed at 10 year olds in Japan. Most Japanese kids don't turn into little hellspawn so content not a problem.
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  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    I think your premise is flawed, actually. I think comics remain as viable for kids today as they were 30 or 40 years ago.
    I think your statement is flawed... comic books 30 - 40 years ago had story, decent art that didn't feature lots of blood and gratuitous violence, had some educational value and yes, a better price point. In other words, comic books 30 - 40 years ago were like a PG movie... today's comic books are more like an R rated movie. They are geared towards adults and I feel publishers and the audience take comic books far too seriously, whereas 30 - 40 years ago they were viewed as cheap entertainment.

  3. #33
    SNIKT! davidn15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delliott101 View Post
    I think your statement is flawed... comic books 30 - 40 years ago had story, decent art that didn't feature lots of blood and gratuitous violence, had some educational value and yes, a better price point. In other words, comic books 30 - 40 years ago were like a PG movie... today's comic books are more like an R rated movie. They are geared towards adults and I feel publishers and the audience take comic books far too seriously, whereas 30 - 40 years ago they were viewed as cheap entertainment.
    You haven't seen many R rated movies have you?

    A comic is pg-13 at most.

    The violence is fictional. It ain't gon hurt your kids.
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  4. #34
    The Older Waiter Brave Sir Robbin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batman98 View Post
    Are you kidding me? Where I was a kid, just about everyone go a new power ranger every week. I would go with my dad and pick up comics on a weekly basis. It isnt about not having the money it is about not knowing they exist and not wanting them as much as that new toy or game.
    I tend to agree with you. People seem to find money for, to me, bizarre crap for kids. Lots of kids in my kids' school get I Phones, cool new clothes routinely, and music and video games. I know times are tough but a lot of buying decisions amaze me.Kids could get comics if they knew where to get them and had been exposed to them.

    I think that the comic industry could help itself by working with schools and pushing it as reading material. Because that is what it is and studies show that reading is reading and the type of content is secondary to the act when developing the mind.

    Plus, by far the most popular books in my kids' school for a while were the Hunder Games books. There is NOTHING in the DC world that is darker and more deranged than a set of books about children death matches in a vicious totalitarian state. And these are not atypical in kids literature.
    Last edited by Brave Sir Robbin; 06-27-2012 at 09:00 AM. Reason: spelling error

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by delliott101 View Post
    I think your statement is flawed... comic books 30 - 40 years ago had story, decent art that didn't feature lots of blood and gratuitous violence, had some educational value and yes, a better price point. In other words, comic books 30 - 40 years ago were like a PG movie... today's comic books are more like an R rated movie. They are geared towards adults and I feel publishers and the audience take comic books far too seriously, whereas 30 - 40 years ago they were viewed as cheap entertainment.
    You're talking about books like Batman (which returned the character to it's darker origins, and often had the main character do such things use the name of the Lord in vain, quite a no-no back in the day), or Warlord (who ran around with scantily clad women and ran people through with his sword) or Conan (see previous) or The Amazing Spider-Man (where the Goblin is shown being run through with his glider), or Green Lantern/Green Arrow (where Oliver's ward was shooting up heroine), right?
    Be careful when speaking. You create the world around you with your words.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    The reason Manga sells so well with kids in Japan is because it is dirt cheap. Our collector society needs a product that will last forever though.
    If I understand that comment correctly, you seem to be under the impression that the price of comics is due to the paper stock. It isn't. The combined production and distribution costs of comics all contribute to the price, and make the profit margin comparatively low. You could print them on toilet paper, but you'd still have to pay the creators, pay the printers, pay Diamond, and let the comic stores take their cut, so you still wouldn't be able to significantly lower the cover price.

  7. #37
    Unreasonably Opinionated Conway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    You're talking about books like Batman (which returned the character to it's darker origins, and often had the main character do such things use the name of the Lord in vain, quite a no-no back in the day), or Warlord (who ran around with scantily clad women and ran people through with his sword) or Conan (see previous) or The Amazing Spider-Man (where the Goblin is shown being run through with his glider), or Green Lantern/Green Arrow (where Oliver's ward was shooting up heroine), right?
    There was a certain level of campy humor that went with all that violence. There was also a measure of disbelief. I agree that many of these are definitely more R than PG-13, though not all, but none of them are just PG anymore. I'm not saying there weren't violent comics I'm saying right next to those I could get a Superman, Batman & Robin, or Captain Marvel that a 5 year old could read without needing a discussion about nightmares.

    As for the Goblin and Spidey, they are part of a story that is as important to American Literature as Theroux's Walden or Thompson's Fear and Loathing.

  8. #38
    They LAUGHED at my theory SteveGus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tony ingram View Post
    If I understand that comment correctly, you seem to be under the impression that the price of comics is due to the paper stock. It isn't. The combined production and distribution costs of comics all contribute to the price, and make the profit margin comparatively low. You could print them on toilet paper, but you'd still have to pay the creators, pay the printers, pay Diamond, and let the comic stores take their cut, so you still wouldn't be able to significantly lower the cover price.
    On the other hand, most original manga I've seen has been printed in large, phonebook like volumes that run several monthly series concurrently. Production values were not high; most of them were printed in black and white on newsprint like paper. This may represent a better price point -- but we'd still have to have retail space to carry similar volumes here.

    A lot of us miss a lighter mood and "campy" material (technically, it isn't camp or even campy; those words have a more specific meaning in my eye, and true camp is always created unintentionally), but this is an aesthetic preference that probably doesn't have much impact on the current market. The turn towards the unpleasant happened mostly after we lost the newsstand market; it is more effect than cause. Still, getting the books before more eyes would help.
    Last edited by SteveGus; 06-27-2012 at 09:35 AM.
    Superhero comic books only become art to the extent that their banal, unrealistic fantasy and garish styles go too far and become interesting. Attempts to ground them in reality can only ruin them.

  9. #39
    SNIKT! davidn15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    There was a certain level of campy humor that went with all that violence. There was also a measure of disbelief. I agree that many of these are definitely more R than PG-13, though not all, but none of them are just PG anymore. I'm not saying there weren't violent comics I'm saying right next to those I could get a Superman, Batman & Robin, or Captain Marvel that a 5 year old could read without needing a discussion about nightmares.

    As for the Goblin and Spidey, they are part of a story that is as important to American Literature as Theroux's Walden or Thompson's Fear and Loathing.
    When I was 5 I was ripping people in half in Mortal Kombat. It never bothered me because ... it wasn't real.
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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    There was a certain level of campy humor that went with all that violence.
    I think people who found these works after the fact sometimes feel this way. But even with that, I think it's hard to look at what's in a book like Green Lantern/Green Arrow #85 and think of it as 'campy". Same could be said of Amazing Spider-Man 96-98.

    There was also a measure of disbelief. I agree that many of these are definitely more R than PG-13, though not all, but none of them are just PG anymore. I'm not saying there weren't violent comics I'm saying right next to those I could get a Superman, Batman & Robin, or Captain Marvel that a 5 year old could read without needing a discussion about nightmares.
    Again, I'd point to the 1970s era Batman, which introduced the Man-Bat -- which could be pretty darn frightening to a five year old! In an effort to be more relevant to college aged students, Superman started having more edgy and "adult" story-lines, too.

    There's actually more "kid friendly" superhero books out today (Brave and the Bold, Marvel Adventures, Teen Titans Go, etc.) than there ever were in the 70s.

    As for the Goblin and Spidey, they are part of a story that is as important to American Literature as Theroux's Walden or Thompson's Fear and Loathing.
    Well, I don't know if the story rises quite to that level, though I agree it's solid literature.
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  11. #41
    Unreasonably Opinionated Conway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveGus View Post
    On the other hand, most original manga I've seen has been printed in large, phonebook like volumes that run several monthly series concurrently. Production values were not high; most of them were printed in black and white on newsprint like paper. This may represent a better price point -- but we'd still have to have retail space to carry similar volumes here.
    I have an easier time finding Manga than comics. Every book store in town has a section with books crammed tight into it. Of the 7 "book stores" in town that offer Manga only two carry comic books, and as for the one "comic book store", no Manga anywhere. And that is in America. Production quality may suffer but price is the problem.

  12. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    I have an easier time finding Manga than comics. Every book store in town has a section with books crammed tight into it. Of the 7 "book stores" in town that offer Manga only two carry comic books, and as for the one "comic book store", no Manga anywhere. And that is in America. Production quality may suffer but price is the problem.
    Do those book stores carry graphic novels?
    Be careful when speaking. You create the world around you with your words.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Animal Man View Post
    now i like Dark Comics(Big Fan Of The Dark Line)But what about the kids who want to read some comics? you can't just give them the latest issue of Animal Man and expect things to go over well...

    but as it stands Marvel/DC has made it hard for kids to actually read the comics without some potential nightmare fuel brewing inside their heads and the all age comics don't really give them much to work with

    and on another note why are all age comics so watered down that kids miss the action that drew them to these characters in the first place they don't want to be treated like all they deserve is an inferior story with less action they wanna be reading superman or batman but they can't....

    are kids just not into comic books anymore is that what the big time publishers think?
    Because kids today watch Hostel when their parents arent at home.

  14. #44
    Unreasonably Opinionated Conway's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    Do those book stores carry graphic novels?
    Yes most of them have a few trades, but that isn't a comic book.

  15. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conway View Post
    Yes most of them have a few trades, but that isn't a comic book.
    They most certainly are. They are either original comic books or collections of previously published comic books. Very likely the only people who'd try to draw a distinction between the two are hard-core hobbyists.
    Last edited by Rob Thompson; 06-27-2012 at 09:58 AM.
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