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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by manofsteel1979 View Post
    it's a mystery how idelson has remained. With the new status quo in the new 52, he should have been replaced.

    I have a very strong feeling that had new krypton not become the mess it became, and been at least moderately successful, the new 52 reboot for superman would have been closer to the reboot batman got, which was a compressed timeline where the big events still happened but slightly differently, superman deaged about 5 years and the new suit. Ma kent would likely had been still alive in the present and lois and clark would still be a couple, either married or back to the eternal engagement we had in the 90's ( which smallville is more or less doing). In other words, the kind of reboot superman should have gotten imo, with morrison still doing his thing in action, erasing and replacing secret origin (which would have been no great loss ).

    But, thanks to idelson's bungling, we ended up with a superman universe so screwed up, rebooting was the only real option, and if it were left to only idelson overseeing it, it would have been so bad, it would have made the last two years look great by comparison.

    All i can say, love or hate him, thank god for grant morrison. If it wasn't for him agreeing to do action, the superman franchise would likely have been in an even worse place now. Action isn't perfect, but it has a direction and a vision. Maybe not my ideal vision for what superman is, but it at least is trying to accomplish something, and the last two issues were phenominal. I say let idelson go, and make morrison the defacto-editor in coordination with another editor to help keep things consistant, and let him have control of not only superman, but superboy and supergirl too to have them all sync up to grant's vision of the superman family status quo. Let morrison write action and either write or co-write superman with lobdell or another writer for awhile to get things back on track. Dump defalco on superboy and get that book in a new direction that isn't so tethered to teen titans. Supergirl is doing well, so keep that team on the book, but i would at least make sure grant's vision of krypton and the house of el is reflected there and is consistent.

    Consistancy is the key. Idelson is incapable of such a thing, judging from the last 6 years. Thus, why he needs to go and go now.
    total agreement.
    Rehire Grant Morrison for Superman.
    Give Lois her own BOOKS.
    Keep Scott Lobdell in Superverse forever.
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  2. #32
    The Abbot 8diagrams's Avatar
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    Not a huge Morrison on superman fan, but if there is one thing I can say I know about the guy, is that he is down with collaborating and working with others. Perez' run wasnt very inspired and I understand he doesnt like the editorial restrictions but them are the breaks.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8diagrams View Post
    Not a huge Morrison on superman fan, but if there is one thing I can say I know about the guy, is that he is down with collaborating and working with others. Perez' run wasnt very inspired and I understand he doesnt like the editorial restrictions but them are the breaks.
    There is a massive difference between collaborating/working with others and what happened to Perez.
    You're like the only person on the entire net to support editorial here. Is it possible you're not entirely informed what went down?
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  4. #34
    The Abbot 8diagrams's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    There is a massive difference between collaborating/working with others and what happened to Perez.
    You're like the only person on the entire net to support editorial here. Is it possible you're not entirely informed what went down?
    I do understand. I just dont care about it. Perez was restricted so he couldnt write things as he wished. Its a business at the end of the day so sometimes there are limitations you have to live with.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8diagrams View Post
    I do understand. I just dont care about it. Perez was restricted so he couldnt write things as he wished. Its a business at the end of the day so sometimes there are limitations you have to live with.
    But at the expense of shutting down creativity in a business that depends on it is not a good thing.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Desaad View Post
    Superman hasn't suffered in the least. His franchise is lightyears ahead of where it was preboot.
    I was actually talking about the Superman book not the character. The real development is happening in Action Comics. Editorial can get the blame for no real developments in Superman. It seems like it's in a holding pattern.

  7. #37
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    Well you put Superman in the same line as Hawkman and Green Arrow, implying the problem is with the character and more so than just the writing quality.

  8. #38
    Veteran Member glennsim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8diagrams View Post
    I do understand. I just dont care about it. Perez was restricted so he couldnt write things as he wished. Its a business at the end of the day so sometimes there are limitations you have to live with.
    All corporate super-hero writers work within limitations. But it's not always the case that those limitations change from day to day, as Mr. Perez mentions.

    It wasn't that he couldn't write within the boundaries - they kept changing the boundaries. Presumably because every time Grant Morrison burped up some new bizarre idea, everybody ran around like chickens to accommodate him.

  9. #39
    The-One-Above-All robcastor729's Avatar
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    So from what i understand PEREZ didn't like the fact that EDITORIAL kept changing the rules.
    It was a reboot so the rules were not even set and the fact is wasnt he "work-for-hire"? He can't expect things to be perfect
    "My name is Blink. Who do you THINK is faster?"

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8diagrams View Post
    I do understand. I just dont care about it. Perez was restricted so he couldnt write things as he wished. Its a business at the end of the day so sometimes there are limitations you have to live with.
    I think Perez was saying he could deal with restrictions-he just wanted to know about them before he started writing or drawing the book.

    That falls on the editors. And sooner or later you are going to have writers just leave and any news ones say no thanks to writing for DC. This is the third known book to have editor issues-somebody might want to look into that.

  11. #41
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    Not to mention all the major talent that has left the company because of editorial in the past.
    Grandparents dead - please no jokes

    make mine DC, thanks

  12. #42
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    They've only driven away creators they no longer see useful, hence people like Johns and Morrison get so much power.

  13. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by AndItsOn! View Post
    Yeah, this is a really bad era for superman....

    The DC image of Superman is in trouble because its already been built from a baby into an unbeatable superstar. The DC Superman has grown and already gone so fast, lifted so much, flown so fast that now there little else to do except look back and revamp. The biggest problem being NOBODY at DC WB knows where this revamp is going

    Is Superman supposed to the powerful guy battling super bad guys like the animated 90s cartoon and JLU toon?

    Is he supposed to go back to original levels, powerful like Aquaman and Ironman but still vulnerable to being blasted out of the sky

    Is Superman supposed to be Tom Wellings take, character interaction and drama, and heart-warming performance as a farm boy in the Smallville

    Is Superman supposed to be cheesy 80s version, big score, a goofy yet patriotic and great Christopher Reeve who bumbles around as a reporter but hides the power of a god inside, crowds went ooh and aah at the magnificent theme tune

    Is Superman supposed to be dark and angst like Nolan's Bat?

    Nobody knows what direction to take the character, that's why the brand is in trouble

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Holmes View Post
    When Grant Morrison wrote Batman, there was never this kind of problem with the other Bat-books.
    Grant was writing Batman (mostly) in the present and in and old continuity that had already been established (New 52 Bat continuity is the same, already been decided on by writers who molded it before him and he ignored most of what they did anyway). The problem with Superman was that Grant was in the past establishing continuity and status quo between Superman and his villains so Perez had nothing to go on and couldn't play with pillars of Superman and din't know what his relationships with other characters where. That being said, I really can't find an excuse for how boring Superman #1 was.While it might not have been as bad as other #1s it was one of the most generic, bland and pointless.

  15. #45
    Crisis on Infinite Earths xtopgunx's Avatar
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    giant Kryptonian flying dragon's controlled by a Dragonball Z character for an antagonist. Yeah. Superman is... doing well?

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