What's the appeal in cape comics?

[Donald M.]

Why I don't like indie titles

Crappy art - You run the risk of getting lots of substandard IME. Whereas the 'Big 2' have house styles that I've grown accustomed to.

So which is it, is the art in indie titles "crappy" or is it just in a style you aren't accustomed to?

Fanbase - I really don't like their attitudes. It's like they're 24hr wine tasters.

I have no idea what you're talking about here. Superhero fans are the worst comic fandom has to offer, a sad pack of whiny, entitled man-children. Not all superhero fans are like this thankfully, but plenty are.

Genres - They simply don't interset me.

So the only genre that interests you is superheroes? Does this apply to other media as well or just comics? If it's just comics, do you realize how fucking weird that is?

Characters - They don't interest me - not to mention that they die rapidly. I want to read about characters that I know have an extended shelf life.

Same question as before, are the only characters that interest you in any media superheroes? How strange. Do you watch any television programs? They won't be around for decades and if a character dies they (probably) won't be coming back. Oh jeez, movies are even worse! Have I mentioned that I think the criteria you look for in comics is weird? Because it is. Puzzlingly so.

Continuity - It doesn't seem important to those books for one reason or another.

Indie titles tend to be self-contained narratives, so I guess if by "continuity" you mean a shared universe, then yeah I guess you're right, indie titles don't care about continuity. If you mean something else you're gonna have to clarify because that's the only interpretation that makes sense.

I probably could add one or two more reasons to the list of why I don't support indie titles. But, at the end of the day I like superhero comics and the characters that make them. If I just liked good books and stories in general, well, I still probably wouldn't like indie comics - I'd just read more novels or watch more TV/movies.

Dude, you're weird.

[Slam_Bradley]

Escapism. Really that's all there is. To the extent I read long-underwear funnybooks it's about escapism. I deal with enough real-life shit in real life. My reading tends to lean away from real-life shit. Not that I read that many superhero funnybooks, because they've become overly silly.

[The Animal Man]

i think it's because Indie comics come and go so often that you can't get attached to a certain title unless you know it's gonna sell

with standard cape comics like bat titles or justice league titles you know it'll last for awhile it won't get canned after a few issues

but with Indie comics? it's a struggle just to get noticed if your starting out and right now Hoax Hunters is the only indie title on my list(Unless you wanna count marceline and the scream queens due to the publisher but it's not A True Indie Title)that's because it's An idea worth supporting not every Indie comic is like that and there's a lot that suck....with Cape Comics even a okay comic from batman can give you some entertainment value while Indie comics have to make you give a crap about the characters that previously you had no clue about who they were or what they did

[thwhtGuardian]

For me, I just like entertaining stories, whether that means capes or more independent comics I don't really care as long as I'm having an enjoyable experience.

Are there terribly written capes stories out there? Certainly, but in my experience there are just as many terrible indy titles out there as well so it's not as if the capes have the market on bad fiction cornered.

[Kees_L]

In my view it would be invalid to be perceiving comics as either *independent comics* or *Cape Comics*. Like as if they'd have to be separate things at all.

Comics can be anything. From current to way old or way oldschool, from conservative to batshit innovative, or anywhere near enticing or be it imaginative. Indie comics could be proposing capes, or continuity, intricately.

Anyone should be aware that tradition nor conservativeness invented comics and neither did they invent superheroes. Marvel didn't and DC didn't, but independent publishers did, or at least indepently-thinking people did - publishing people or either creative people. All or any comics would be *indie comics* basically in the first place.

Any Batman or Wonderwoman or X-Men both as any of the oldest or most traditional superhero comics started out as being basically *indie comics* I would think.
Because one Harvey Kurtzman both as Will Eisner or Lou Fine or Jack Kirby or Hergé or any of such buffs stated or described comics to being such. Plus there'd be a number of articles done on it. Hell, even wiki's!

[FanboyStranger]

So which is it, is the art in indie titles "crappy" or is it just in a style you aren't accustomed to?

You're asking a guy who thinks Marcos Martin's art in Daredevil is too "indy" to be enjoyed. That kinda says it all, I think.

[Hulk_Is]

So which is it, is the art in indie titles "crappy" or is it just in a style you aren't accustomed to?

Well, since I'm more accustomed to and a fan of traditional superhero artwork - if you were to apply indie sensibilities to a superhero title (current Daredevil) - I find that it is weak and not at all engaging.

(Modern)Traditional cape artwork="Good":



Indie art applied to modern cape comics="Bad": (I feel like hipsters would love it.)

I have no idea what you're talking about here. Superhero fans are the worst comic fandom has to offer, a sad pack of whiny, entitled man-children. Not all superhero fans are like this thankfully, but plenty are.

I just meant that indie comics readers tend to appreciate their comics like a fine wine or fine art - which I find to be a bit boring and usually goes over my head. Cape comics readers are a unique bunch, but at the end of the day it's just colorful costumes and childish fantasies. I didn't mean to make indie comics readers sound pretentious, per se. :P

So the only genre that interests you is superheroes? Does this apply to other media as well or just comics? If it's just comics, do you realize how fucking weird that is?

The only genre that I enjoy in any format is the superhero one.

Same question as before, are the only characters that interest you in any media superheroes? How strange. Do you watch any television programs? They won't be around for decades and if a character dies they (probably) won't be coming back. Oh jeez, movies are even worse! Have I mentioned that I think the criteria you look for in comics is weird? Because it is. Puzzlingly so.

The only thing I watch on TV is the NFL (American Football). Like, right now all my TV has on it is snow. But, when Football season gets underway, I may set it back up to watch games on it; but, of course games can be watched online nowadays also.

I don't believe I'm a comic book fan necessarily because I only like superheroes for the most part. Having an aversion to the majority of comics (Indies) means that I'm not really a comic book fan. So, I don't think that I'm all that strange.

Indie titles tend to be self-contained narratives, so I guess if by "continuity" you mean a shared universe, then yeah I guess you're right, indie titles don't care about continuity. If you mean something else you're gonna have to clarify because that's the only interpretation that makes sense.

It seems like the characters just exsist to tell those self-contained stories and will not appear outside of those. Also, those characters can be subject to death with no possibilty of ever returning. Cape comics have spoiled me in that "dead doesn't always mean dead", or, "the dead don't always stay dead" - whichever way makes more sense. Superhero comics are just the best in ensuring that the characters you've grown up on are still around even after you're gone. It always depresses me when a supposed fan of superheroes makes the comment that mainstream superheroes should grow old and die and be replaced by new and younger characters. It's like - if I wanted that to happen in my comic books I'd be reading indie books, since those authors aren't tied to long-lasting mainstream characters.

Dude, you're weird.

What can I say? Indie books irk me in so many different ways.

[Hulk_Is]

You're asking a guy who thinks Marcos Martin's art in Daredevil is too "indy" to be enjoyed. That kinda says it all, I think.

I also sucks that I just got a copy of Amazing Spider-Man "Big Time" in trade format and it features MM's art in it (and on the cover). I hope I can get through it without wanting to throw the book down.

[coveredinbees]

Don't get me wrong i love my superheroes and stuff and a lot of the new 52 is great but why would you buy so many of the obviously poorly written titles with the same rehashed plots over and over? why not support more indie or non-cape stuff like Sweet Tooth, Saucer Country, or Chew? Stuff like Blue Beetle and Hawkman are put out while good pitches get thrown in the crapper? The best cape comic I've read in a while is Invincible, and even that has some rehashed stuff. So I ask you, why do you find cape comics appealing and more worthy of support than indie titles?

Because they're not all low quality and I love superheroes because it's a dream of the best in humanity and I think that because people always make superheroes it proves that we're good.

But I like Indie titles, too. Sweet Tooth is to sad, and I don't like the art that much. I like Saucer Country. Chew was kind of boring and a little gross for me. It was funny, but I wasn't feeling patient.

Escapism. Really that's all there is. To the extent I read long-underwear funnybooks it's about escapism. I deal with enough real-life shit in real life. My reading tends to lean away from real-life shit. Not that I read that many superhero funnybooks, because they've become overly silly.

yeah

[dupersuper]

Don't get me wrong i love my superheroes and stuff and a lot of the new 52 is great but why would you buy so many of the obviously poorly written titles with the same rehashed plots over and over?

I'm confused. Do you love super heroes and think a lot of the titles are great, or do you think they're all poorly written and rehashed? In either event, I buy the comic books I do because I like them. This includes cape books and non-cape books from DC, Marvel, IDW, Boom, Dynamite, Image...

[Donald M.]

It seems like the characters just exsist to tell those self-contained stories and will not appear outside of those. Also, those characters can be subject to death with no possibilty of ever returning. Cape comics have spoiled me in that "dead doesn't always mean dead", or, "the dead don't always stay dead" - whichever way makes more sense. Superhero comics are just the best in ensuring that the characters you've grown up on are still around even after you're gone.

All the characters I grew up with in every medium are still around and will be long after I'm gone. Those stories have gone nowhere. I don't need new stories about them to be told in perpetuity in order to feel good about them. As for death, if a character's going to die then it should mean something. It would be better that superhero comics just never kill any even halfway-important characters than continue with the numbing cycle of death and rebirth/reboot/revamp/retcon that's rendered the very concept of death in superhero comics meaningless and cheap.

[Donald M.]

You're asking a guy who thinks Marcos Martin's art in Daredevil is too "indy" to be enjoyed. That kinda says it all, I think.

Indeed. I think I'm done here.

[finfangfool]

You could ask "why do people go to watch movies with car chases and explosions and CGI over well-acted and written movies without any of that?", or "why do people listen to Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift over (insert obscure band with more basic musicianship and talent than said examples that most people have never heard of)?" It's a combination of things, first that the more popular thing is more popular for a reason: it moves the needle in people's brains and grabs their interest. You might think if you could round up every comic fan in the world and force them to read Chew and Sweet Tooth that they would put away their Thor comics forever and delve into Indies. You'd be wrong (I've read both, I enjoy neither, and I love both independent titles/genres and superhero comics). Secondly, you can't round up every comic fan and force them to read your favorite obscure titles and so many people (again, definitely not all or even a majority but many) who would enjoy them may never see them either because the shop they frequent doesn't carry it, or it sells out too quickly because it wasn't ordered heavily, or it's filed in a section they don't bother with (preferring the familiar Batman and Avengers titles).

While I agree it's a shame that comics without superhero themes have a harder time getting sales (which leads to regular publishing for long stretches, and allows comics with similar themes to develop), it is the genre most associated with the art-form (at least in the Western world) so it's understandable. That said, just because you enjoy certain independent titles more than Batman for example doesn't mean that it's better. Just that you enjoy it more. It could even be crafted with more skill than the Batman title (in terms of writing, art, or both), but when it comes to entertainment that means little if it doesn't do what it's meant to (entertain the reader). I'm sure if you got Alan Moore and Frank Quitely to do a story about an old lady tending her garden it would be a wonderful story and well-crafted, but the X-Men written by Jeph Loeb and drawn by Rob Liefeld would blow it out of the water sales-wise and would entertain many more people. You might enjoy the gardening story more, I know I would (I'd be interested to see what they did with it), but it would have failed as entertainment (by comparison to Loeb/Liefeld's X-Men). And that's what comics are, at their most basic level. If the technical ability of the creators on the titles you enjoy and the novelty of the concepts dealt with makes you feel as though you have better taste than everyone reading the Avengers or X-Men you should be satisfied with that thought and continue to enjoy those comics (and leave others to enjoy what they enjoy).

[Kees_L]

You could ask "why do people go to watch movies with car chases and explosions and CGI over well-acted and written movies without any of that?", or "why do people listen to Justin Bieber and Taylor Swift over (insert obscure band with more basic musicianship and talent than said examples that most people have never heard of)?" It's a combination of things, first that the more popular thing is more popular for a reason: it moves the needle in people's brains and grabs their interest.

I see you using or introducing the terms "obscure" both as "popular" in your post, but I feel uncertain I could be to fully agree or follow how you'd be using them, because:

Generally in such forms of idiom such as "popular entertainment", "popular music", "popular science", "popular fiction" I believe the word *popular* would not necessarily be meaning totally the same as how it would in this sentence: "popular" comics sell better than indie ones.
Since in the first examples popular (which most straightforwardly means "for common people") means 'accessible / low entry level / casual / leisurely'.
Or would I be mistaken?

Plus, you seem to be presenting the word "obscure" as being a direct opposite to "popular", as if only cape comics / superhero comics would be popular, whereas indie comics would have to be obsure up to a point?
I'd personally think that the whole of comics, so any indie ones plus any known or popular ones would all combined be fitting the criterium of falling into the popular entertainment category, regardless of sales figures or any such. All comics would basically be as popular or as obscure as the next one.

[Vibranium]

the worst comic fandom has to offer, a sad pack of whiny, entitled man-children. Not all superhero fans are like this thankfully, but plenty are.

I think he means the fans of indie comics, the types that only read indie comics and look down their nose at superhero stuff