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  1. #16
    Welcome to the Future. HeroxMatt2.0's Avatar
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    This series confuses me.

    I'm a massive Fraction fan and I'm a fan of Thor.

    A mysterious race known as the "Mares", a species that communicates through dreams, are travelling through the World Tree to spread nightmares and terror around the universe. All the while, Amora brings her wrath to Asgardia, aided by a monster birthed from Don Blake's feelings of inadequacy. THAT SOUNDS AWESOME! It makes for a great story arc, and yet ...

    There's just something that isn't clicking here for me.

    And I think it is because of the portrayal of Thor. He's just going through the motions and things are happening to him: we don't get a sense of his thoughts, or emotions regarding these events. Where Invincible Iron Man focuses so much on the fall out and the emotional resonance of events in character moments, I haven't seen any of that from Fraction's Thor series. (Except when he first started with Thor lamenting Loki.) He's more a device than a character in the Mighty Thor.
    You are an apocalypse dreaming of butterflies
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroxMatt2.0 View Post
    And I think it is because of the portrayal of Thor. He's just going through the motions and things are happening to him: we don't get a sense of his thoughts, or emotions regarding these events. Where Invincible Iron Man focuses so much on the fall out and the emotional resonance of events in character moments, I haven't seen any of that from Fraction's Thor series. (Except when he first started with Thor lamenting Loki.) He's more a device than a character in the Mighty Thor.
    Fractions characterization of Thor or lack of it as the case may be has been one of the criticisms. Fraction has great ideas, but the emotional payoff often isn't there. This is one of the complaints about Thor's return. In all of one issue he escapes Demogorge, kills Ulik and is reunited with the All-Mothers yet a lot of people stated it felt to be lacking something. Same thing with Fear Itself. Fraction seems to try and build something with Cul being Odin's long-lost brother. Yet nothing is done. Thor, nor the audience feels anything for Cul because he comes off as so generically evil and no one has heard of him before. The audience does not feel like it is a big deal when Odin overthrew him or why Odin had to hide him. The backstory of Cul as presented in the Mighty Thor does not help matters because again it shows Cul just being evil. The Kelda/Bill story seemed to have a sort of happy ending under Gillen, but Fraction out of nowhere turned Kelda into a moper who had no life beyond Bill. We never really get anything from that except for her to die and be reunited with Bill in death. Silver Surfer and Loki seemed to establish some sort of relationship, but that has been forgotten about. What happened to Jane Foster and Erik? Fraction seemed to be going there with something only to drop it.

    Thor has a barbarian show smashes things does not help either. The current plight of the nine world is a direct result of Thor being as dumb and selfish as Ulik the troll. Odin has a direct warning put on to stay sealed and Thor knows Odin's seals contain something powerful and evil. Yet Thor broke it anyway.
    Last edited by seekquaze; 06-30-2012 at 08:19 PM.

  3. #18
    Senior Member Zach J.'s Avatar
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    I don't hate what Fraction's done with Thor, but I think that's mostly to do with the fact that I have a hard time remembering what's happened after each issue. Fraction's Thor seems like some sort of Conan rip-off; his run has been fairly forgetable in my opinion.

    Edit: Does anyone else find themselves groaning each time an Asgardian says, "What the Hel?"
    Last edited by Zach J.; 06-30-2012 at 09:19 PM.

  4. #19
    Welcome to the Future. HeroxMatt2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seekquaze View Post
    Fractions characterization of Thor or lack of it as the case may be has been one of the criticisms. Fraction has great ideas, but the emotional payoff often isn't there. This is one of the complaints about Thor's return. In all of one issue he escapes Demogorge, kills Ulik and is reunited with the All-Mothers yet a lot of people stated it felt to be lacking something. Same thing with Fear Itself. Fraction seems to try and build something with Cul being Odin's long-lost brother. Yet nothing is done. Thor, nor the audience feels anything for Cul because he comes off as so generically evil and no one has heard of him before. The audience does not feel like it is a big deal when Odin overthrew him or why Odin had to hide him. The backstory of Cul as presented in the Mighty Thor does not help matters because again it shows Cul just being evil. The Kelda/Bill story seemed to have a sort of happy ending under Gillen, but Fraction out of nowhere turned Kelda into a moper who had no life beyond Bill. We never really get anything from that except for her to die and be reunited with Bill in death. Silver Surfer and Loki seemed to establish some sort of relationship, but that has been forgotten about. What happened to Jane Foster and Erik? Fraction seemed to be going there with something only to drop it.

    Thor has a barbarian show smashes things does not help either. The current plight of the nine world is a direct result of Thor being as dumb and selfish as Ulik the troll. Odin has a direct warning put on to stay sealed and Thor knows Odin's seals contain something powerful and evil. Yet Thor broke it anyway.
    I agree entirely. The emotional pay off we're talking about is something I love seeing Fraction deal with in things like Invincible Iron Man (and to an extent, even in his Defenders #4 and #5). I think it's been non stop action with all the cylinders firing since the first issue, which is good from a certain aspect, but character wise it doesn't really give them time to be explored and developed beyond their basic characterisations. Like Zach is saying, Thor is the warrior - and he isn't developing deeper than that.
    You are an apocalypse dreaming of butterflies
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    we are a patchwork of miracles.

  5. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by HeroxMatt2.0 View Post
    I agree entirely. The emotional pay off we're talking about is something I love seeing Fraction deal with in things like Invincible Iron Man (and to an extent, even in his Defenders #4 and #5). I think it's been non stop action with all the cylinders firing since the first issue, which is good from a certain aspect, but character wise it doesn't really give them time to be explored and developed beyond their basic characterisations. Like Zach is saying, Thor is the warrior - and he isn't developing deeper than that.
    Yep, Fraction's a great writer when he can be, but Thor is a very tricky character to get right. There's so much and yet so little a writer can do with him and his supporting cast. Personally, I think Gillen should be the writer for Thor. Or Hickman or really anyone who knows High-Fantasy. Fraction just doesn't feel like he's connecting with these characters.

  6. #21
    Senior Member jphamlore's Avatar
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    Am I the only one for whom it is obvious the Enchantress resurrected her version of Skurge from the World Tree? She had to use Blake because as Blake stated he had Thor's memories, thus memories of Skurge. That's why her paramour looks as he does now.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellman View Post
    I see it more as Odin is the father that Thor knows he will never live up to. When he tries he usually fails and at times fails really hard so he goes in gunho to prove his own worth by trying either surpass dad or make him proud. My take at least.
    I see that too. And that Odin constantly pushes him to try and become a better man than he was.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldwarmyth View Post
    I see that too. And that Odin constantly pushes him to try and become a better man than he was.
    Thor's reckless actions and feud with Odin may be born of trying to surpass him. In a society like theirs where reputation counts for a lot whoever has the biggest reputation is the highest in society. Unfortunately for Thor as things are now he will never be able to surpass Odin. Thor may be the one who does the leg work to save Asgard, but Odin is the brains behind it and everyone knows that. Odin is the one that when all else fails you know will have the plan to save the day. Odin is the one who took Asgard from being a backwater kingdom to the greatest in the Nine Worlds. He is the one who time and again drove back Surtur and Ymir among countless other victories. Thor's victories in a way can never measure up.

    Thor dropped the ball when he became king. It was his opportunity to eventually move out of Odin's shadow by replacing Odin's accomplishments with his own. He failed miserably. Thor will always be a great warrior in the eyes of Asgard. But Odin is both a great warrior and a great king. That is why as long as anyone has heard of Odin Thor will never be able to escape his shadow.

  9. #24
    Senior Member superchick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldwarmyth View Post
    I see that too. And that Odin constantly pushes him to try and become a better man than he was.
    Odin doesn't really know what a good man is though, he wants Thor to be a good God. A good God isn't a good man as Odin shows.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jphamlore View Post
    Am I the only one for whom it is obvious the Enchantress resurrected her version of Skurge from the World Tree? She had to use Blake because as Blake stated he had Thor's memories, thus memories of Skurge. That's why her paramour looks as he does now.
    That's what I was thinking. Plus it would link to Fraction's original Thor mini he did when he started Marvel.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by superchick View Post
    Odin doesn't really know what a good man is though, he wants Thor to be a good God. A good God isn't a good man as Odin shows.
    I disagree. A good god can be a good man and under most writers Odin is both. The thing is a lot of people forget that Odin is also a king in a society very different from the modern and he has to put the needs of his kingdom first. If Thor is to be the future ruler of Asgard then he has to be prepared. A lot of Odin's actions are either to protect Asgard or ready Thor.

    A queen is an important person in the life of a king. During "The Reigning" we saw what effect an evil queen can have on Thor. She encouraged his worse aspects. Jane Foster comes from such a different culture and life she may never be ready to be queen of Asgard.

    Odin is overall a good father, but like any father he is not perfect. He had to hide Balder's true parentage for his own protection and the protection of Asgard. He kept Vidar away from Asgard again for the latter's protection and the protection of Asgard. Yet Odin aided Vidar in his quest for justice for the murder of his wife, honored her passing, and invited Vidar to come to Asgard but he chose to stay a farmer. Odin tried to be a good father to Loki, but for reasons partly his fault and partly Loki's that relationship failed.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hulk_Is View Post
    Hail Satan Thor and Beheaded Boyfriend Blake were the highlights of this issue.
    That was rather goofy - hate the goth pretending to be black metal kid though. Fraction could have written a very sympathetic and fun young metalhead but went with the usual lame cliche. He isn't even a fun cliche. I suppose that's where the Desecrator Thor came in, but still. As someone whose been into heavy metal and many of it's extreme variations for 30+ years it's annoying to see the same old same old polluting pop culture. Naturally the black metal bands don't help but...I digress.

    I haven't liked Thor since Jurgens was given the short shrift... and I really do not like the cinematic version. He's just boring to me in all of his current incarnations.
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by superchick View Post
    Odin doesn't really know what a good man is though, he wants Thor to be a good God. A good God isn't a good man as Odin shows.
    Good point...I sometimes forget we're talking Odin here and not an Earthbound father figure. Thanks.
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