Secret Avengers #28 *Spoilers*

[davew128]

what is Mar-Vell anyway? Some Kree normal guy with negabands.

Suggest you google Mar-Vell. Before he died he had cosmic awareness and far greater than normal strength by Kree standards. IIRC he also absorbed solar energy.

What part of Mar-Vell has a piece of the PF anyway? When was this established? And why would having a little bit of PF in you make the PF go away? It's was all too unexplained and childish.

Did you , I dunno, actually read the entire SA crossover? It was made perfectly clear what had happened.

[davew128]

Frankly, I never got Mar-Vell. I missed him dying of cancer as I wasn't reading then, but isn't he just a glorified Green Lantern?

You mean besides the completely unrelated powers, backstory, role, costume, and personalities?

[psynetrix]

Great issue. No one -including Captain America- has made a more valid point against Cyclops than the one Ms. Marvel makes here. When seen from that perspective, Summers is a crazy dude. Loved seeing Binary again, and I hope we get to see her again in the new Captain Marvel series. Too bad Valkirye didn't get to do anything.

.

[XPac]

Great issue. No one -including Captain America- has made a more valid point against Cyclops than the one Ms. Marvel makes here. When seen from that perspective, Summers is a crazy dude. Loved seeing Binary again, and I hope we get to see her again in the new Captain Marvel series. Too bad Valkirye didn't get to do anything.

.

Certainly Carol's statement that the Phoenix has consumed every world in it's path liked scared the bejesus out of anyone who read that report.

So I imagine if the Avengers weren't worried before, they were after that.

[jackolover]

Did you , I dunno, actually read the entire SA crossover? It was made perfectly clear what had happened.

Yes, I read the whole crossover.

He was reanimated by the Kree relatives in some strange crystal manner, and somehow we were supposed to assume that included a sliver of PF? Then, Marv's sliver scared away the big bird. Why doesn't Hank McCoy get another sliver of PF and do the same thing for Earth, and scare the bird away also?

You mean besides the completely unrelated powers, backstory, role, costume, and personalities?

Yeah, apart from all that, I can't see the difference.

[davew128]

Yes, I read the whole crossover.

Uh huh.

He was reanimated by the Kree relatives in some strange crystal manner, and somehow we were supposed to assume that included a sliver of PF? Then, Marv's sliver scared away the big bird. Why doesn't Hank McCoy get another sliver of PF and do the same thing for Earth, and scare the bird away also?

The same reason you don't understand what happened despite reading it. It won't work. Without spoiling it for you, what happened and how was laid out in very easy to understand terms. And uh, no Marv-ell's sliver didn't scare anything away. I guess you didn't get that part either.

[jackolover]

Uh huh.

The same reason you don't understand what happened despite reading it. It won't work. Without spoiling it for you, what happened and how was laid out in very easy to understand terms. And uh, no Marv-ell's sliver didn't scare anything away. I guess you didn't get that part either.

No probably not.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Captain Britain can't be that powerful can he? How can he push Phoenix backwards?

I wouldn't say it was purely his power levels at play, there. Yes, potentially, his power levels *are* limitless. But there was also reasoning going on here. Brian addressed the Phoenix as a former comrade.

Most people forget this, but of all the Avengers Captain Britain is arguably the one member who has previously lived and worked alongside a Phoenix host (Rachel Summers) for longer than any other. The Phoenix was very much a force of good under Rachel's control. It even supported the Comatose Rachel until sufficiently healed.

When Brian charges in he is a addressing it as a former ally. Something nobody else has thought to do, so far.

You know what? I've really enjoyed this arc, by and large. Remender told a good story, it had far more logic and drive to it than many of the other tie-ins, and it did deserve three issues.

It's just an incredible shame that, timing wise, the rest of the Event has moved so far on away from this point in time. The co-ordination of A vs X in general; leaves a lot to be desired.

This, presumably, sets up Carol to take on the mantle of Captain Marvel, and showed a team of characters I was very much interested in reading.

My only criticism, as I'm sure I'll end up posting in every thread for this book, is that while Remender is giving Captain Britain some great page time he just doesn't have his voice or personality down. I'd like to say 'yet' because I hope this changes.

That Phoenix sequence was GREAT. Logical, and acknowledging one of the many ties Brian has to this Event which could be used from a plot point of view.

GREAT, that is, until Mar-Vell illogically managed to fling Brian aside, at the height of his power, and delivered the confusing line of Brian never being able to tell 'Confidence from Arrogance'.

For one Mar-Vell hasn't had any contact with Brian before, that I can think of. And secondly, Brian is not arrogant. Any hot-headedness was burnt off in the early 90s. Since his return from the Timestream in the second half of Excalibur he has been a much wiser, calmer and controlled man.

Not being able to tell 'Confidence from Arrogance' is not a British trait, It's not a Captain Britain trait either. Captain Britain is all about the underplaying of his achievements, and NOT making a fuss.

I cannot figure why Remender hasn't got this. It's practically the crux of the entire character.

The whining, the self-pity and melodrama is also so out of place.

'Damn it, Bonds! Break!'

On if they still had the Phoenix Cage 'Well, I saw to it that we DON'T!'

Or last issue's 'Damn, Merlyn! And damn his test!' When Merlyn ceased testing Brian years ago...

It's also such odd and unnatural dialogue. Brian hasn't *ever* been this whiny, even when drinking at the despair of his Sister's Death - and God knows he was PRETTY WHINY during that phase. But not like this. Nor so blindly naive.

I get the idea, Remender wanted to break him down and then build him up, to introduce him to new readers. But what he seems to have done is go back to Brian as he was at the start of Excalibur, in 1988! And then elaborate. He paints him as this naive, hot-headed rookie. Something you might be able to have argued for back in the 1970s, but Brian is NO rookie.

Trying to reconcile this version of Brian with the guy as he's been portrayed since the mid 90s is getting more and more difficult. Such great work has been done with the guy over recent years and watching Remender's little touches, here and there, is like watching it all very slowly being undone again.

[Codah]

After all he went through with Meggan in CB&MI13, he's characterized quite well in SA. There may be a little bit of reintroducing the character but nothing more significant than Remender putting his spin on the character like any writer would. I'm a huge CB fan and I've been pretty thrilled with Remender's version of him.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

After all he went through with Meggan in CB&MI13, he's characterized quite well in SA. There may be a little bit of reintroducing the character but nothing more significant than Remender putting his spin on the character like any writer would. I'm a huge CB fan and I've been pretty thrilled with Remender's version of him.

Respectfully, I'd disagree with that a lot.

Where has Brian's humilty gone? Where has the calm, wise, thoughtful hero of the past few years gone? Why is he speaking with such incredible melodrama?

I don't mind a return to the Classic Davis costume, but why is he suddenly back to being a rookie again, making mistake after mistake, getting cheap-shotted left, right and centre.

The Brian we saw in CB&MI13 was confident, never rushed in and incredibly humble. That was always the point. Of the 3 Braddock Siblings Jamie was the flamboyant one, who revelled in the publicity fame brought him. Betsy was the model, sophisticated but with a wild side, leading a secret life working for the goverment.

Brian was the quiet one. The Scientist. Reserved, but kind. The guy who never wanted to Be A HERO.

Secret Avengers has so far painted him as an assumptive bragger, a guy who disrespects war heroes, and a rash-minded rookie, who throws himself in without thinking.

Really not sure what you mean about Meggan, either. Yes they were parted in House of M, and he never expected (Though almost certainly HOPED) to see her again. He was furious with PLOKTA for what he believed was conjuring a falsse version of his wife, in attempt to weaken him. As it turned out, it WAS the real Meggan. And she fought her way out, making her a stronger character in the process.

At the end of that series, re-united, they both showed themselves to be far mre than the characters most people remember from the early days of Excalibur. And rightly so. Over 20 years of development has happened in between. Meggan was trapped between dimensions. Brian's world view was forever changed by his being trapped in the timestream. Death and rebirth, loss and reunion, so many things.

In all honesty, I don't rreally see any of that carried through to Secret Avengers. I see Remender wanting to start with a clean slate. Remmove Meggan from the picture, leaving her behind in Otherworld, and start from a point which is familliar to some past readers. That being how Brian was when he joined Excalibur. That's where US readers mostly first encountered him. It worked before.

The trouble is, with so much development, you cannot go back to that point without it seeming like really odd behaviour. It's also a period which a lt of British Captain Britain fans actively hated - feeling that the character was being made to look like an incompetent fool at the expense of making the others look good.

I've been reading Captain Britain in one form or another for three decades. I've seen cycles of development. I've seen writers omit huge parts of Brian's History in order to fit what they wanted to do with him. This is not the worst (Cough, cough, Lobdell... 'Britannic') but after finally having brought the character back to being a genuine hero, with a simple and approachable powerset, this seems like a huge step backwards to me.

It ignores far too much and makes Brian look like a fool, over and over. When he should be every bit on a par with the characters he's teamed with.

[Codah]

You actually make a really good point. I think I have to concede to you that Remender did do a semi-relaunch of the character. Still though, it's one I'm okay with. CB has always been a peripheral character so if giving him a bit of a relaunch can help keep him in a series then I'm okay with it. And like you said, it's not like he's a completely new character, just him 20 years ago lol.
Not enough people read the new Excalibur series' and CB&MI13 to keep up with his development so maybe since he's an Avenger now, people will take notice. My one big complaint about him now is the lack of his MI13 costume. I love the Davis one but the new one was so damn cool.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Brian's powerset was simpler, too. I'm not sure where Remender is going, here. He refers to him being powered by 'Courage' (Although confidence and courage are two different things). But then we've seen him using his old costume too, which used to be a power amplifier.

It's confusing.

I will be happy to return to ongoing plots though. Sir James Braddock as 'Brother' is an intriguing idea. And releasing the quivalent of Replicants into the wider world is something that Brian might have to answer for eventually.

It's just that I prefer Captain Britain to be a shown as competent, capable of leading (But not assuming anything), heroic but with humility. That's the guy who was on board MI13. It's not so far the guy in Secret Avengers.

I hope that this issue was a turning point for the character, though. It's clear Remender has an interest in Captain Britain. Just not neccesarily the version Captain Britain that most fabns have been bothering Marvel to bring back for the last couple of years.

[XPac]

I wouldn't say it was purely his power levels at play, there. Yes, potentially, his power levels *are* limitless. But there was also reasoning going on here. Brian addressed the Phoenix as a former comrade.

Most people forget this, but of all the Avengers Captain Britain is arguably the one member who has previously lived and worked alongside a Phoenix host (Rachel Summers) for longer than any other. The Phoenix was very much a force of good under Rachel's control. It even supported the Comatose Rachel until sufficiently healed.

When Brian charges in he is a addressing it as a former ally. Something nobody else has thought to do, so far.

You know what? I've really enjoyed this arc, by and large. Remender told a good story, it had far more logic and drive to it than many of the other tie-ins, and it did deserve three issues.

It's just an incredible shame that, timing wise, the rest of the Event has moved so far on away from this point in time. The co-ordination of A vs X in general; leaves a lot to be desired.

This, presumably, sets up Carol to take on the mantle of Captain Marvel, and showed a team of characters I was very much interested in reading.

My only criticism, as I'm sure I'll end up posting in every thread for this book, is that while Remender is giving Captain Britain some great page time he just doesn't have his voice or personality down. I'd like to say 'yet' because I hope this changes.

That Phoenix sequence was GREAT. Logical, and acknowledging one of the many ties Brian has to this Event which could be used from a plot point of view.

GREAT, that is, until Mar-Vell illogically managed to fling Brian aside, at the height of his power, and delivered the confusing line of Brian never being able to tell 'Confidence from Arrogance'.

For one Mar-Vell hasn't had any contact with Brian before, that I can think of. And secondly, Brian is not arrogant. Any hot-headedness was burnt off in the early 90s. Since his return from the Timestream in the second half of Excalibur he has been a much wiser, calmer and controlled man.

Not being able to tell 'Confidence from Arrogance' is not a British trait, It's not a Captain Britain trait either. Captain Britain is all about the underplaying of his achievements, and NOT making a fuss.

I cannot figure why Remender hasn't got this. It's practically the crux of the entire character.

The whining, the self-pity and melodrama is also so out of place.

'Damn it, Bonds! Break!'

On if they still had the Phoenix Cage 'Well, I saw to it that we DON'T!'

Or last issue's 'Damn, Merlyn! And damn his test!' When Merlyn ceased testing Brian years ago...

It's also such odd and unnatural dialogue. Brian hasn't *ever* been this whiny, even when drinking at the despair of his Sister's Death - and God knows he was PRETTY WHINY during that phase. But not like this. Nor so blindly naive.

I get the idea, Remender wanted to break him down and then build him up, to introduce him to new readers. But what he seems to have done is go back to Brian as he was at the start of Excalibur, in 1988! And then elaborate. He paints him as this naive, hot-headed rookie. Something you might be able to have argued for back in the 1970s, but Brian is NO rookie.

Trying to reconcile this version of Brian with the guy as he's been portrayed since the mid 90s is getting more and more difficult. Such great work has been done with the guy over recent years and watching Remender's little touches, here and there, is like watching it all very slowly being undone again.

I think that's just sort of the "feet of clay" thing marvel often goes for with their character.

They often get some sort of personal flaw... they'll evolve over time to deal with that. But then they sort regress a bit. If these guys ever deal with with all their personal faults, they'd frankly become boring after awhile.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I think that's just sort of the "feet of clay" thing marvel often goes for with their character.

They often get some sort of personal flaw... they'll evolve over time to deal with that. But then they sort regress a bit. If these guys ever deal with with all their personal faults, they'd frankly become boring after awhile.

I understand the concept. I've seen it done a dozen times before. But not in this fashion. This really is throwing out 20 years of continuity, and presenting a character whose personality has been so radically reverted from his last two ongoing outings that he's barely recognisable at times, barring his costume.

The Brian in Captain Britain & MI13 had flaws and weaknesses, but he wasn't at any time bluntly, and illogically, arrogant or melodramatic. In fact if anything that series worked very hard to work against these mischaracterisations of the past. It's a little bit more than a regression. It's certainly not favourable.

[nojarama]

Was a bit disappointed in the issue. Too rushed. It really saddens me that they keep bringing back Mar-Vell, only to kill him off yet again (I know the last time, he was a really a skrull, but I was quite happy to have him back and don't me started on Carol taking over the mantle- pointless! She's perfect as is IMO, her new outfit they will have her in is idiotic and the preview art hasn't made me feel any better about it. As for Brian, I prefer his characterization in Captain Britain & MI13 myself. They have fumbled with him in SA methinks.