Before Watchmen: The Comedian #1 Discussion/Spoilers

[Jim Thompson]

I don't mind it at all if some of the DC heroes meet up with Obama and he gives them a mission, I mean that's pretty inoffensive and sort of cute. To have Jackie O hiring the Comedian to kill Marilyn Monroe is extremely ****ed up. I really don't want to read something like that, and I don't get offended easily.

They are taking a bit of a chance writing in something with America's version of royalty, I agree.

[AndItsOn!]

That "love, respect, love, respect, love, respect" thing at the beginning was one of the cheesiest bits of banter I ever read. Particularly weird when The Comedian was involved.

Also, they better have Blake with Nixon in Dallas in the latter part of the day, otherwise, I'd say that's definitely a conflict in continuity, as Ozymandias isn't the type to get his info wrong and has no possible reason to lie about that matter to Nite Owl and Rorschach. I'm thinking Azzarello remembers it was implied by Blake that he was somehow involved with JFK's assassination, and this is an ironic reversal of that line by Blake, but I think Az forgot it was somewhat reconfirmed and re-implied by Ozymandias later on.

I really really like that love respect scene. Cheesy? What are you talking about? Not for me at all. That's actually one thing that let me feel somthing about the character I am not entirely familiar with.

[CBikle]

I thought it was implied that the Comedian shot JFK. I guess not.

No, in Watchmen (TOS), it was heavily implied that he shot JFK and I believe Moore just about said as much in that old Amazing Heroes interview he did.

[CBikle]

That "love, respect, love, respect, love, respect" thing at the beginning was one of the cheesiest bits of banter I ever read. Particularly weird when The Comedian was involved.

Also, they better have Blake with Nixon in Dallas in the latter part of the day, otherwise, I'd say that's definitely a conflict in continuity, as Ozymandias isn't the type to get his info wrong and has no possible reason to lie about that matter to Nite Owl and Rorschach. I'm thinking Azzarello remembers it was implied by Blake that he was somehow involved with JFK's assassination, and this is an ironic reversal of that line by Blake, but I think Az forgot it was somewhat reconfirmed and re-implied by Ozymandias later on.

Maybe it's a retcon ?

[Vic Vega]

Maybe it's a retcon ?

At this point you kind of have to think so/

Its hard to see how somebody as smart as Ozy is supposed to be could get Eddie's whereabouts so completely wrong (unless you assume he was willfully lying to Night Owl and co. which doesn't make any sense either.

The bit about Eddie being at home with the Kennedys as manly man among manly men is an interesting twist.

I'm just not sure its enough to justify this series existence.

Especially if you thought this series was going to be about Comedian being on the grassy knoll or whatever.

I agree with the O.P. iin that there is also a question of taste here.

[refrax5]

I don't mind it at all if some of the DC heroes meet up with Obama and he gives them a mission, I mean that's pretty inoffensive and sort of cute. To have Jackie O hiring the Comedian to kill Marilyn Monroe is extremely ****ed up. I really don't want to read something like that, and I don't get offended easily.

Stuff like this was pretty much all over the original Watchmen. When I read it, I felt a little icky, sure, but it's not like the original shied away from that kinda thing. Art and literature and entertainment have played with ideas like that forever. I'll admit that it made me a bit uncomfortable, but I feel like a series about the Comedian should be making you uncomfortable and not playing it safe or worrying about offending people.

As for the continiuity issue of Blake being the one who shot Kennedy (probably), that may very well be addressed. At least I hope it is.

[tabo61]

I was shocked about the part in this story where Jackie O played a role in Marilyn Monroe's death. Of all the conspiracies I've heard about her death so far I've never heard one where she was connected to it. I can see right now that this issue is going to be picked up by mainstream media over this and the subject debated on political shows.

[RedRocker13d]

I can see right now that this issue is going to be picked up by mainstream media over this and the subject debated on political shows.

Hasn't happened yet so I doubt it will. Also, even if it did happen, more of the issues would sell. People love to buy controversial stuff like that.

[SteveGus]

I was shocked about the part in this story where Jackie O played a role in Marilyn Monroe's death. Of all the conspiracies I've heard about her death so far I've never heard one where she was connected to it. I can see right now that this issue is going to be picked up by mainstream media over this and the subject debated on political shows.

It probably would be for the best if that did not happen, if only for the publicity this should not get.

But I saw the pages in question, and this is pure misogynistic filth. In some countries, the author and the editors would be in jail by now and I would not have a problem with that.

[Jim Thompson]

It probably would be for the best if that did not happen, if only for the publicity this should not get.

But I saw the pages in question, and this is pure misogynistic filth. In some countries, the author and the editors would be in jail by now and I would not have a problem with that.

Are you serious with this?

[SteveGus]

Are you serious with this?

First, it's true. Other countries take the memories of their leaders and iconic historical figures very seriously. Not just backwards dictatorships, but relatively peaceful and civilized countries like Thailand, where they take the memories of their king and former royals very seriously, and people face prosecution for far milder disparaging statements.

And books like this suggest that those kinds of laws, though fortunately impossible in the USA, might have a point. It is frankly disturbing to contemplate the fact that this is being published for somebody's entertainment.

[Jim Thompson]

First, it's true. Other countries take the memories of their leaders and iconic historical figures very seriously. Not just backwards dictatorships, but relatively peaceful and civilized countries like Thailand, where they take the memories of their king and former royals very seriously, and people face prosecution for far milder disparaging statements.

And books like this suggest that those kinds of laws, though fortunately impossible in the USA, might have a point. It is frankly disturbing to contemplate the fact that this is being published for somebody's entertainment.

Yeah, I know such places and laws exist; I've been to many of those countries. It's the acceptance of such measures that gave me pause. There are places that would throw you into jail or worse for expressing your opinion like this; do you feel they might also have a point?

At any rate, if you feel this way about the Kennedy's portrayal in Before Watchmen: The Comedian, you must be near apoplexic with regard to Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter.

[SteveGus]

Yeah, I know such places and laws exist; I've been to many of those countries. It's the acceptance of such measures that gave me pause. There are places that would throw you into jail or worse for expressing you opinion like this; do you feel they might also have a point?

Most people have some kind of moral sense that would recoil from a depiction of Marilyn Monroe's corpse being raped. In some places, the law protects those feelings. Here in the USA we draw a line that makes writers free to depict such things, for the sorry souls that will find it entertaining. Other countries draw the line differently. If they draw it so that publishing a comic like this falls on the side that society will not tolerate, I wouldn't call that so obviously wrong that it deserves condemnation.

The important thing, of course, is that most people do have a moral sense that recoils from a depiction of Marilyn Monroe's corpse being raped. Playing such a thing for kicks tends to deaden the conscience, IMO.

[Jim Thompson]

Most people have some kind of moral sense that would recoil from a depiction of Marilyn Monroe's corpse being raped. In some places, the law protects those feelings. Here in the USA we draw a line that makes writers free to depict such things, for the sorry souls that will find it entertaining. Other countries draw the line differently. If they draw it so that publishing a comic like this falls on the side that society will not tolerate, I wouldn't call that so obviously wrong that it deserves condemnation.

The important thing, of course, is that most people do have a moral sense that recoils from a depiction of Marilyn Monroe's corpse being raped. Playing such a thing for kicks tends to deaden the conscience, IMO.

I notice you avoided my question.

[SteveGus]

I notice you avoided my question.

Well, if Brian Azzarello were the sort of respected public figure of the type we're talking about, I'd probably already be in jail.

I haven't seen Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter yet, but the title doesn't bother me. Nothing about it suggests that I can expect Lincoln to be portrayed as a rapist or murderer. (Violator of corpses, yeah, sure, but it's different when they're vampires.) Having Lincoln hunt vampires is not a black mark on his character.