Superman working off of Clark's investigations

[adkal]

We had some of this in the recent Action Comics issue - would you be for or against him doing this kind of thing on an ongoing basis?

It may be that certain investigations, for examples, are not able to be published in the newspaper (national security issues, for example), but should that stop Clark from doing the legwork and for Superman 'stepping in' when need be?

Clark may have provided the evidence to the relevant police force or authority and, perhaps, the subject of those investigations is about to escape (warrants have been issued, etc) - in such a situation, would Superman stepping in be a bad thing?

Thoughts?

[Kurosawa]

We had some of this in the recent Action Comics issue - would you be for or against him doing this kind of thing on an ongoing basis?

It may be that certain investigations, for examples, are not able to be published in the newspaper (national security issues, for example), but should that stop Clark from doing the legwork and for Superman 'stepping in' when need be?

Clark may have provided the evidence to the relevant police force or authority and, perhaps, the subject of those investigations is about to escape (warrants have been issued, etc) - in such a situation, would Superman stepping in be a bad thing?

Thoughts?

He often has done this in the past, and he should continue.

[Mat001]

Back in 1991, when the end of Intergang arc took place, Clark had a bet with Lois concerning who was the better reporter. The catch was that he couldn't use his powers at all to get the story. So Clark proceeded to get the documents that contained all of Intergang's holdings and did so as a normal human would. Once he was able to get it printed, Clark then proceeded to go after Mannheim himself as Superman and brought him into custody. Such issues weren't a problem since he was deputized to bring in criminals and warrants were a deciding factor in his actions. Usually since he was able to get the evidence without it violating the legal system. Very rarely was he asked not to get involved as Superman.

[adkal]

Such issues weren't a problem since he was deputized to bring in criminals and warrants were a deciding factor in his actions. Usually since he was able to get the evidence without it violating the legal system. Very rarely was he asked not to get involved as Superman.

Wasn't he only deputized in a 'local' sense (as in Metropolis only) back then?

Over in Action his approach seems to have changed somewhat - 'collate the evidence and then get the guy' (recent issue) rather than 'have enough evidence to know what you're doing is right but not enough for the legal process, and get the guy' (issue 1).

I may be reaching but I felt that his anger when confronting that guy was also directed at himself for taking too long to step in...

[Mat001]

Wasn't he only deputized in a 'local' sense (as in Metropolis only) back then?

Initially, but though it wasn't said, it seemed to spread out across the country beyond Metropolis. Hence the times that Clark captured criminals in other towns and cities.

Over in Action his approach seems to have changed somewhat - 'collate the evidence and then get the guy' (recent issue) rather than 'have enough evidence to know what you're doing is right but not enough for the legal process, and get the guy' (issue 1).

I may be reaching but I felt that his anger when confronting that guy was also directed at himself for taking too long to step in...

That's why I didn't mention it. Here, he's the unknown guy who is just doing what he feels is right and hasn't been granted the same privileges as in previous continuities. His anger was just part of his act more than anything.

[adkal]

Initially, but though it wasn't said, it seemed to spread out across the country beyond Metropolis. Hence the times that Clark captured criminals in other towns and cities.

But that could readily be set aside as 'citizen's arrest', couldn't it?

Do 'bounty hunters' need licences?

That's why I didn't mention it. Here, he's the unknown guy who is just doing what he feels is right and hasn't been granted the same privileges as in previous continuities. His anger was just part of his act more than anything.

I didn't consider that display of anger 'part of his act'. To me, it came across as very righteous, but also directed towards himself as well. With Glenmorgan he had made the mistake of not putting together enough evidence; with this guy he put the evidence together but wasn't able to save the last victim and, I think, that tore him more - that by 'following the rules' he had, in essence, let someone down.

The learning curve he's on is a painful one.

[Superlad93]

I didn't consider that display of anger 'part of his act'. To me, it came across as very righteous, but also directed towards himself as well. With Glenmorgan he had made the mistake of not putting together enough evidence; with this guy he put the evidence together but wasn't able to save the last victim and, I think, that tore him more - that by 'following the rules' he had, in essence, let someone down.

The learning curve he's on is a painful one.

Yup I agree with you all the way. This notion is even heightened by the fact that the very next scene was him and the JL talking about what more they could do.

His anger was no act.

[13th Superman]

I didn't consider that display of anger 'part of his act'. To me, it came across as very righteous, but also directed towards himself as well. With Glenmorgan he had made the mistake of not putting together enough evidence; with this guy he put the evidence together but wasn't able to save the last victim and, I think, that tore him more - that by 'following the rules' he had, in essence, let someone down.

The learning curve he's on is a painful one.

I agree. Could'nt have said it better.

[ascended]

I believe a bounty hunter needs a license, yes. But Im not sure. I do all my bounty hunting off the grid, vigilante style.

I had forgotten all about that scene with Clark and the child killer. Quite true that his learning curve is painful. And I hope that moment serves as a warning to writers to make sure Superman does not again fall into the category of "establishment man." There should always be a dash out outlaw in Superman. And I may be reading too much into things, but I think Morrison put that in there to directly parallel how Clark ended up in the last continuity. He followed the law too much, became ineffective, and may as well have been working for the White House. Here, his following the legal system ended up with the death of a child. All things in moderation. Collect enough evidence to know you're in the right, but dont wait so long that more damage ends up being caused by your inaction.

As for the OP, I think there's nothing wrong with Clark using both sides of his life to do his job. However, he should not be dependent on his powers to do so. If Clark lost all his abilities tomorrow and decided to quit the hero game, he should still be quite capable of being a damned fine reporter. Hell, with so much more free time, he should actually improve by leaps and bounds.

I always thought writers missed out on great opportunities to write street level Superman stories, simply by having Clark investigate something where his powers are completely worthless. A crime scene with no evidence his extra sensory abilities can do anything with for example. It can help showcase his limitations while also showcasing some of his talents we dont normally see; mainly his intelligence.

But nothing wrong with him using his super hearing and "zoom vision" to help collect evidence either, just so long as he doesnt rely on those powers.

[super1man]

But that could readily be set aside as 'citizen's arrest', couldn't it?

Do 'bounty hunters' need licences?




I didn't consider that display of anger 'part of his act'. To me, it came across as very righteous, but also directed towards himself as well. With Glenmorgan he had made the mistake of not putting together enough evidence; with this guy he put the evidence together but wasn't able to save the last victim and, I think, that tore him more - that by 'following the rules' he had, in essence, let someone down.

The learning curve he's on is a painful one.

I did not think that. I thought Clark was only after the man after the child killing. If by collecting evidence he could not save the child then thats sad. It also helps him to make the decision to get rid of Clark for now.

[adkal]

I did not think that. I thought Clark was only after the man after the child killing. If by collecting evidence he could not save the child then thats sad. It also helps him to make the decision to get rid of Clark for now.

One of the reasons I reached the conclusion I did is the wording used. He doesn't say something like, 'I could burn out the parts of your brain that made you hurt her' but, instead, '...that make you hurt people'.


Clark isn't counter productive, he was essential in collating the evidence needed to ensure Marigold would be sent to jail. One of the things he needs to deal with going forward is 'how much evidence is enough'. There may have been, for example, a degree of escalation in Marigold's behaviour - perhaps, previously, he had waited several weeks or months between victims but, with Emily, he...hunted...sooner.

It's actually a very dark scene.

[super1man]

One of the reasons I reached the conclusion I did is the wording used. He doesn't say something like, 'I could burn out the parts of your brain that made you hurt her' but, instead, '...that make you hurt people'.


Clark isn't counter productive, he was essential in collating the evidence needed to ensure Marigold would be sent to jail. One of the things he needs to deal with going forward is 'how much evidence is enough'. There may have been, for example, a degree of escalation in Marigold's behaviour - perhaps, previously, he had waited several weeks or months between victims but, with Emily, he...hunted...sooner.

It's actually a very dark scene.

No, I agree and its a good theory. I had been putting forth a theory that Clark deliberately got himself killed via Grundig because he saw people closing on him. He saw Nimrod following him, Mrs N knows and Lois suspects him. He also said in issue 8 I think that he would abandon Clark if he was ever outed. So right now in his mind Clark is becoming a liability so he got himself killed. Now I think he will start missing Clark in the next few issues and manipulate the First Superman to let Clark live again. Also off course he saved Grundig, who I believe is being manipulated by the little guy and this is how Clark will first know about the little guy having agendas against him.

And this will actually tie to the title of this thread Clark investigates and Superman can be ready for the Little Guy when the time comes.

[adkal]

He saw Nimrod following him,

Yeah, he was very aware of Nimrod's presence (when he's looking at him sitting in the diner, for example).

Mrs N knows and Lois suspects him.

I don't think Lois does, not at this point in time. I think people are overlaying the (strong (blatant)) hints of her knowing '5 years later' over this period.

He also said in issue 8 I think that he would abandon Clark if he was ever outed.

I think that was more him calling her bluff, a 'display of indifference'.

So right now in his mind Clark is becoming a liability so he got himself killed. Now I think he will start missing Clark in the next few issues and manipulate the First Superman to let Clark live again. Also off course he saved Grundig, who I believe is being manipulated by the little guy and this is how Clark will first know about the little guy having agendas against him.

And this will actually tie to the title of this thread Clark investigates and Superman can be ready for the Little Guy when the time comes.

I'm curious as to whether we'll get to see the explanation he promised Mrs N. If we're shown that in 11, it may clue us in to Clark's 'return' in 12...

[Mat001]

But that could readily be set aside as 'citizen's arrest', couldn't it?

It was, but with a stronger caveat so that it could hold up in court. For instance, after Intergang fell, Clark stumbled upon a warehouse that was lead lined. This prompted Clark to bust in and take down the Intergang members who were raiding a weapons cache. Since an arrest warrant wasn't required and it could almost be probable cause, the arrests went forward as well as the conviction.

Do 'bounty hunters' need licences?

I believe so. But then, Clark isn't one.

I didn't consider that display of anger 'part of his act'. To me, it came across as very righteous, but also directed towards himself as well. With Glenmorgan he had made the mistake of not putting together enough evidence; with this guy he put the evidence together but wasn't able to save the last victim and, I think, that tore him more - that by 'following the rules' he had, in essence, let someone down.

The learning curve he's on is a painful one.

The anger afterwards, when Glenmorgan lied and said that he was coerced, that was real. Before then, in issue one, I don't think so. That I believe was one part act and one part social crusader. Since then, though, that's a different story.

As for the OP, I think there's nothing wrong with Clark using both sides of his life to do his job. However, he should not be dependent on his powers to do so. If Clark lost all his abilities tomorrow and decided to quit the hero game, he should still be quite capable of being a damned fine reporter. Hell, with so much more free time, he should actually improve by leaps and bounds.

Which was what he did during "52" in the previous continuity. That whole year without his powers, Clark restored his damaged reputation that stemmed back to post "Strange New Visitor", when he was demoted to the shack and his fellow reporters looked down upon him. He was the one to get the first interview with Supernova and after Lex's assault on him, Clark began writing the stories that turned the public against him leading into "Up, Up And Away". And we saw Clark looking for Lex's storehouse when he found those punks, leading to his contacting Hal and Kendra.

[adkal]

The anger afterwards, when Glenmorgan lied and said that he was coerced, that was real.

Yes, and that lead to him re-assessing the approach he had initially taken. The murder of the girl has led to a further re-assessment.

Before then, in issue one, I don't think so. That I believe was one part act and one part social crusader.

Agreed.


Since then, though, that's a different story.



Which was what he did during "52" in the previous continuity. That whole year without his powers, Clark restored his damaged reputation that stemmed back to post "Strange New Visitor", when he was demoted to the shack and his fellow reporters looked down upon him. He was the one to get the first interview with Supernova and after Lex's assault on him, Clark began writing the stories that turned the public against him leading into "Up, Up And Away". And we saw Clark looking for Lex's storehouse when he found those punks, leading to his contacting Hal and Kendra.[/QUOTE]

Current Clark has a rep for getting his hands dirty and his face punched, even 5 years later.