Page 17 of 18 FirstFirst ... 7131415161718 LastLast
Results 241 to 255 of 268
  1. #241
    God Of Tokusatsu Guy1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Everywhere and Nowhere
    Posts
    64,568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    Sadly, that's where the whole thing would jump the shark.



    Except Peter used his powers to do it and not in a good way, which is what bothered Ben. Peter didn't behave responsibly which is why he got on him like he did. Peter had the great power, but he didn't use it responsibly. And fighting isn't the only solution to stopping bullying.
    Right, except, well, Flash was a douche to pretty much everyone who wasn't him or his friends from what we saw.
    His intro was him being a dick to Peter, he was being a dick to a kid at lunch and then beat the shit out of Peter for lulz and then was being a douche to a random girl in the gym.
    Now, given how badly Flash beat him up and how often he attacked other people, I personally feel Peter would have been somewhat justified in fighting back physically, I know i would have, but he didn't. Peter was the bigger man and stopped at just trolling him in basketball. As a result of Peter defending himself, combined with Peter slamming against the locker, Flash learned to respect Peter and stopped bullying him and the two made amends off screen. Walking away solves nothing. You just need to stand up for yourself and push back.
    Watch I Am Number 4 if you want to see the results of just trying to walk away.
    Last edited by Guy1; 11-28-2012 at 10:31 AM.
    Won 6 Awesome Awards, 2Cool awards, 2 internets, a Raging storm and funniest video award
    My RPG Site!

  2. #242
    Senior Member SephirothDZX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aziz Abbasi View Post
    Someone said "this Peter is the worst main character in a movie"
    I disagree, watch Triple X and see what a complete douche that Xander Berkeley is, barely anything about him is likable
    Disobeys orders, respects no one, gives away his fellow cop, always foul mouthed.......
    He's more of an a**h*** than Peter Venkman from Ghostbusters. At least Peter has his charm and moments, and a good use for being the way he is making the movie more entertaining. Xander makes me wish to see him shot in every frame since Jackson had a chat with him
    To be fair, Triple X came out in the early 2000's back when Austin 3:16 and that whole "do what i want, obey nobody" mentality was running rampant with teens.
    Eh, Comics is a pretty cool guy...

  3. #243
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    11,997

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy1 View Post
    Right, except, well, Flash was a douche to pretty much everyone who wasn't him or his friends from what we saw.
    His intro was him being a dick to Peter, he was being a dick to a kid at lunch and then beat the shit out of Peter for lulz and then was being a douche to a random girl in the gym.
    Now, given how badly Flash beat him up and how often he attacked other people, I personally feel Peter would have been somewhat justified in fighting back physically, I know i would have, but he didn't. Peter was the bigger man and stopped at just trolling him in basketball. As a result of Peter defending himself, combined with Peter slamming against the locker, Flash learned to respect Peter and stopped bullying him and the two made amends off screen. Walking away solves nothing. You just need to stand up for yourself and push back.
    Watch I Am Number 4 if you want to see the results of just trying to walk away.
    That doesn't always work out that way. Not every bully will back down if you stand up to them. The ones that are cowards, yes. The ones that aren't, don't. A bully will only bully you because they know that you will respond. Ignoring them takes away their ability to get under your skin and thus they'll get bored and move on. If you read my other posts, you'd know that fighting doesn't always solve the problems.

  4. #244
    Senior Member SephirothDZX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mat001 View Post
    That doesn't always work out that way. Not every bully will back down if you stand up to them. The ones that are cowards, yes. The ones that aren't, don't. A bully will only bully you because they know that you will respond. Ignoring them takes away their ability to get under your skin and thus they'll get bored and move on. If you read my other posts, you'd know that fighting doesn't always solve the problems.
    Well, Parker didn't just fight him. He flat out humiliated him.
    Eh, Comics is a pretty cool guy...

  5. #245
    Omnidisciplinary Nerd
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    8,698

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SephirothDZX View Post
    Well, Parker didn't just fight him. He flat out humiliated him.
    and from all appearences, it did solve the problem

  6. #246

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SephirothDZX View Post
    To be fair, Triple X came out in the early 2000's back when Austin 3:16 and that whole "do what i want, obey nobody" mentality was running rampant with teens.
    What a role model xD
    Blogger

    I am obsessed with the idea of completely erasing Spider-Man from every Marvel continuity

  7. #247
    Elder Member Black Atom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    10,658

    Default

    Finally got around to watching this and I'm pretty shocked how utterly terrible this movie is. I couldn't wait for it to end. It's far, far worse than any of the Sam Raimi movies and I could literally go for hours dissecting its flaws. But the main one is this: I’m not someone that insists that movie adaptations of comics need to be 100% faithful to the source, except when diversion from the source makes the story less effective. Boy is that the case here. In this movie, Peter’s biological father’s legacy is more important than his bond with Uncle Ben. This point of divergence has the obvious flaw that it gets rid of one of the really unique things about Peter Parker and the Spidey myth and makes him like countless other heroes who inherited some innate goodness from their awesome fathers. More importantly for this movie, the elimination of Ben’s legacy (“With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility”) isn’t replaced by anything else. That’s why, as the Hulk critique someone posted says, this story isn’t really about anything.

    In the original Spidey origin, Peter starts out as selfish and irresponsible and learns the folly of his actions. The Spider-Man myth is just a pretty simple morality tale that’s really not too hard to screw up. This movie version of Peter Parker actually starts off pretty heroic. He sticks up for a kid and puts himself in harm’s way even BEFORE he has any super-powers. He gets yelled at by Uncle Ben about responsibility for forgetting to pick up his aunt because he lost track of time while being INSTRUMENTAL IN THE MOST IMPORTANT BREAKTHROUGH IN MEDICAL SCIENCE IN MANKIND’S HISTORY. Blowing off something like that is something any teen might do and Peter actually has pretty good reasons in this case. Uncle Ben’s rationale for being mad at Peter in this instance actually seems kinda stupid—like it only happens because the screenwriter knows at some point prior to his death, Ben must give Peter a speech about responsibility, even though it doesn’t make a lot of sense in this context. The next time Ben admonishes Peter it’s for…humiliating a bully that chronically tortures students and is prone to outbursts of psychotic violence (even by comic-movie standards, this version of Flash Thompson is a fucking psycho. Why push the archetype this far)? I’m not sure I understand Ben’s (or the movie’s) logic here. It’s not liked Peter picked a fight with Flash intentionally to beat him up and humiliate him (you know, like Superman did to that guy in the diner in Superman 2) – he intervened to stop him from repeatedly swatting a basketball at a girl. So…Peter shouldn’t use his powers to stop strong people from abusing the weak? Because I’m pretty sure that’s what Spider-Man’s (and every superhero’s) whole deal is. Ben’s morality is stupid and nonsensical and therefore the parable of this version of the Spider-Man myth is stupid and nonsensical.

    So, because this movie isn’t about anything, nothing that happens is important. For starters, Uncle Ben’s death isn’t important. Since Ben’s morality makes no sense, his death has no impact on Peter’s becoming a hero. I mean, does Peter really learn the lesson of responsibility from Ben’s death? His failure to stop the robber was actually pretty uncharacteristic based on his depictions up to that point and just seems like momentary poor judgment from a teenager having a crappy day. Peter’s failure in this movie isn’t anything like it was in the classic origin, where Peter ONLY used his powers for money and self-glorification and had no heroic intentions at all until he realized the robber he let go was the same that killed his uncle. The Raimi movie even improved on this, as Peter lies about his intentions to his uncle, creating the circumstances for his death. In the movie, Peter’s decision to become a “real” hero seems to occur when he rescues the child on the bridge—but even before that his actions were pretty darn heroic. He was rushing headlong into a fight with a lizard-monster that could toss cars around, which seems pretty heroic to me. So it seems Peter was really already pretty heroic and just needed the power and circumstances to bring it out, which makes Uncle Ben’s death (and entire existence) in this movie pretty pointless.

    It’s clear they really wanted the driver for Peter’s angst, heroism and coming-of-age to be his biological father’s legacy. Again, I’m not averse to shaking things up, but this change makes Peter like tons others heroes in fiction who are inspired or haunted by their father’s achievements/failures. Classic, boring Oedipal crap. It’s like every Marvel character that gets a movie has to have serious daddy issues: Hulk, Iron Man, Thor…now Spider-Man, I guess. More importantly, it’s especially a problem in this movie because they killed Uncle Ben off for no real reason. Why not just have Uncle Ben live? Why have Uncle Ben at all? Or Aunt May? Or Gwen? We just go through the motions with each of them, even though nothing they do seems logical if you're able to divorce yourself from your expectations of what the characters will do based on your pre-existing knowledge of them.
    Last edited by Black Atom; 12-24-2012 at 01:17 AM.
    "I think we can help. Mercedes is black; I'm gay. We make culture." - Kurt, Glee.

  8. #248
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    1,649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Atom View Post
    Finally got around to watching this and I'm pretty shocked how utterly terrible this movie is. I couldn't wait for it to end. It's far, far worse than any of the Sam Raimi movies and I could literally go for hours dissecting its flaws. But the main one is this: I’m not someone that insists that movie adaptations of comics need to be 100% faithful to the source, except when diversion from the source makes the story less effective. Boy is that the case here. In this movie, Peter’s biological father’s legacy is more important than his bond with Uncle Ben. This point of divergence has the obvious flaw that it gets rid of one of the really unique things about Peter Parker and the Spidey myth and makes him like countless other heroes who inherited some innate goodness from their awesome fathers. More importantly for this movie, the elimination of Ben’s legacy (“With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility”) isn’t replaced by anything else. That’s why, as the Hulk critique someone posted says, this story isn’t really about anything.

    In the original Spidey origin, Peter starts out as selfish and irresponsible and learns the folly of his actions. The Spider-Man myth is just a pretty simple morality tale that’s really not too hard to screw up. This movie version of Peter Parker actually starts off pretty heroic. He sticks up for a kid and puts himself in harm’s way even BEFORE he has any super-powers. He gets yelled at by Uncle Ben about responsibility for forgetting to pick up his aunt because he lost track of time while being INSTRUMENTAL IN THE MOST IMPORTANT BREAKTHROUGH IN MEDICAL SCIENCE IN MANKIND’S HISTORY. Blowing off something like that is something any teen might do and Peter actually has pretty good reasons in this case. Uncle Ben’s rationale for being mad at Peter in this instance actually seems kinda stupid—like it only happens because the screenwriter knows at some point prior to his death, Ben must give Peter a speech about responsibility, even though it doesn’t make a lot of sense in this context. The next time Ben admonishes Peter it’s for…humiliating a bully that chronically tortures students and is prone to outbursts of psychotic violence (even by comic-movie standards, this version of Flash Thompson is a fucking psycho. Why push the archetype this far)? I’m not sure I understand Ben’s (or the movie’s) logic here. It’s not liked Peter picked a fight with Flash intentionally to beat him up and humiliate him (you know, like Superman did to that guy in the diner in Superman 2) – he intervened to stop him from repeatedly swatting a basketball at a girl. So…Peter shouldn’t use his powers to stop strong people from abusing the weak? Because I’m pretty sure that’s what Spider-Man’s (and every superhero’s) whole deal is. Ben’s morality is stupid and nonsensical and therefore the parable of this version of the Spider-Man myth is stupid and nonsensical.

    So, because this movie isn’t about anything, nothing that happens is important. For starters, Uncle Ben’s death isn’t important. Since Ben’s morality makes no sense, his death has no impact on Peter’s becoming a hero. I mean, does Peter really learn the lesson of responsibility from Ben’s death? His failure to stop the robber was actually pretty uncharacteristic based on his depictions up to that point and just seems like momentary poor judgment from a teenager having a crappy day. Peter’s failure in this movie isn’t anything like it was in the classic origin, where Peter ONLY used his powers for money and self-glorification and had no heroic intentions at all until he realized the robber he let go was the same that killed his uncle. The Raimi movie even improved on this, as Peter lies about his intentions to his uncle, creating the circumstances for his death. In the movie, Peter’s decision to become a “real” hero seems to occur when he rescues the child on the bridge—but even before that his actions were pretty darn heroic. He was rushing headlong into a fight with a lizard-monster that could toss cars around, which seems pretty heroic to me. So it seems Peter was really already pretty heroic and just needed the power and circumstances to bring it out, which makes Uncle Ben’s death (and entire existence) in this movie pretty pointless.

    It’s clear they really wanted the driver for Peter’s angst, heroism and coming-of-age to be his biological father’s legacy. Again, I’m not averse to shaking things up, but this change makes Peter like tons others heroes in fiction who are inspired or haunted by their father’s achievements/failures. Classic, boring Oedipal crap. It’s like every Marvel character that gets a movie has to have serious daddy issues: Hulk, Iron Man, Thor…now Spider-Man, I guess. More importantly, it’s especially a problem in this movie because they killed Uncle Ben off for no real reason. Why not just have Uncle Ben live? Why have Uncle Ben at all? Or Aunt May? Or Gwen? We just go through the motions with each of them, even though nothing they do seems logical if you're able to divorce yourself from your expectations of what the characters will do based on your pre-existing knowledge of them.
    You have some good points here.

    I have watched the film on blu ray a month ago and was mostly disappointed. I am probably too old, but the whole teenage angst stuff with the bully, the girl etc. bored me. So did the whole uncle ben /aunt may situation, maybe because I knew what was comming.
    Three armed cops and a writer makes four. You’re under arrest, so get on the floor.

    Master Yoda on clubbing: "Always two there are, no more, no less: a hot chick and her fat friend."

  9. #249
    Omnidisciplinary Nerd
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    8,698

    Default

    black atom, i think going up against the lizard is part of the save the child moment. and it is the first truly heroic thing he did in the movie

  10. #250
    Elder Member Black Atom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    10,658

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1505627 View Post
    black atom, i think going up against the lizard is part of the save the child moment. and it is the first truly heroic thing he did in the movie
    Well, that isn't true. Even if we consider a heroic act to be a completely selfless one, when Peter helps the boy Flash is bullying, that's pretty heroic. Even when he forgets about Aunt May, he's helping a scientist figure out how to cure dismemberment. That's pretty selfless. I mean, he makes a personal sacrifice (his aunt) for a much more important cause, I'd say. It's sorta stupid for Ben to lecture Peter about this, since he didn't shirk his responsibility to May for selfish reasons. So Peter's pretty heroic long before the scene on the bridge (which is why he shows up at the bridge in the first place) which makes his lapse with the armed robber actually somewhat out-of-character and forced.
    "I think we can help. Mercedes is black; I'm gay. We make culture." - Kurt, Glee.

  11. #251
    God Of Tokusatsu Guy1's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Everywhere and Nowhere
    Posts
    64,568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Atom View Post
    The next time Ben admonishes Peter it’s for…humiliating a bully that chronically tortures students and is prone to outbursts of psychotic violence (even by comic-movie standards, this version of Flash Thompson is a fucking psycho. Why push the archetype this far)? I’m not sure I understand Ben’s (or the movie’s) logic here. It’s not liked Peter picked a fight with Flash intentionally to beat him up and humiliate him (you know, like Superman did to that guy in the diner in Superman 2) – he intervened to stop him from repeatedly swatting a basketball at a girl. So…Peter shouldn’t use his powers to stop strong people from abusing the weak? Because I’m pretty sure that’s what Spider-Man’s (and every superhero’s) whole deal is.
    Thank you.
    Won 6 Awesome Awards, 2Cool awards, 2 internets, a Raging storm and funniest video award
    My RPG Site!

  12. #252
    Senior Member Vidocq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,453

    Default

    This flash was pretty Psycho? This was the most human movie Bully I've seen. Ever. What's the worse he does? Punches Peter? Boo Fking Hoo.
    Last edited by Vidocq; 12-24-2012 at 11:08 PM.
    ...And does Mr. Goddanm Batman says so much as ''Thanks''? OF COURSE not. That'd hardly be GRIM AND GRITTY, would it?

    The jerk...

    -DKU's Jim Gordon.

  13. #253
    Senior Member Vidocq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,453

    Default

    ...And! He lays off and offers his condolences when Uncle Ben dies. A regular movie Bully (sht, my school bully also did something like this) would have gone ''Ha! You uncle died like a bitch, you punk.'' or something like that.

    Honestly, this movie made me give a damn about Spiderman. THIS is how a kid who grew up with out his birth parents acts.
    ...And does Mr. Goddanm Batman says so much as ''Thanks''? OF COURSE not. That'd hardly be GRIM AND GRITTY, would it?

    The jerk...

    -DKU's Jim Gordon.

  14. #254
    Omnidisciplinary Nerd
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    8,698

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Atom View Post
    Well, that isn't true. Even if we consider a heroic act to be a completely selfless one, when Peter helps the boy Flash is bullying, that's pretty heroic. Even when he forgets about Aunt May, he's helping a scientist figure out how to cure dismemberment. That's pretty selfless. I mean, he makes a personal sacrifice (his aunt) for a much more important cause, I'd say. It's sorta stupid for Ben to lecture Peter about this, since he didn't shirk his responsibility to May for selfish reasons. So Peter's pretty heroic long before the scene on the bridge (which is why he shows up at the bridge in the first place) which makes his lapse with the armed robber actually somewhat out-of-character and forced.
    that reminds me: Did ben even know peter was meeting with connors

  15. #255
    Senior Member Vidocq's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    4,453

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 1505627 View Post
    that reminds me: Did ben even know peter was meeting with connors
    No, he didn't tell them. All he knew was that Peter didn't pick her up and she had to walk alone at night back home.
    ...And does Mr. Goddanm Batman says so much as ''Thanks''? OF COURSE not. That'd hardly be GRIM AND GRITTY, would it?

    The jerk...

    -DKU's Jim Gordon.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •