The Bechdel Test

[Dizzy D]

The people in your porn talk to each other?

Whole dialogues, usually starting with "I've come to fix the sink."

[Alex]

Whole dialogues, usually starting with "I've come to fix the sink."

Not in lesbian porn.
Female plumbers, pffft.

[Shellhead]

Alien and Aliens pass. There's two of my 3 favorite movies.

I just looked at Guardian's link that showed the original comic strip by Alison Bechdel that defined her test, and she mentioned Alien as passing. Maybe she would have mentioned Aliens as well, but that particular comic strip was printed in 1985. Funny coincidence.

[Kieran_Frost]

Do your favorite movies pass the Bechdel Test? It should be easy, all you need is:
1. Two named female characters...
2. ...who talk to each other...
3. ...about something other than a man.

Let's see...
My "TOP TEN" favourite films:

1. THE LORD OF THE RINGS (2001 - 2003) NO (two named females don't talk to each other)
2. the Silence of the Lambs (1991) YES
3. Apocalypse Now! (1979) NO (I don't think the film even has a named female?)
4. One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest (1975) NOT REALLY
5. Singin’ in the Rain (1952) YES
6. Blade Runner (1982) NO?
7. C’era una volta il West (1968) NO
8. the Third Man (1949) NO?
9. BEN-HUR (1959) YES
10. Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi (2001) YES -- lots

[Kieran_Frost]

This is pretty much how I feel about the Bechdel Test, but it is eye-opening to see how many movies fail it.

EXACTLY!!! The Brechnel Test (in my opinion) isn't so much "look how awful this is, shame on you Hollywood" but rather an interesting observation. Reverse the roles and have "white straight male" and you'd be harder pressed to find a movie that CAN fail the test. The same way:
1. name a film with two gay males
2. who aren't dating/in a relationship/interested in one another
3. where the film ISN'T about gay issues/a gay centred plot.

Off the top of my head, I honestly can't. And is having two gay males in a film REALLY that improbable?

This is one of those things I was wondering, but I get the feeling that for it to be a true "pass" it has to be a conversation with ONLY women in it, a group conversation with mixed genders doesn't count.
Really, I think the test is only useful if the film in question has female main characters who interact with each other. If it's a movie about a guy (or guys) like a lot of action or genre films, then it's not a valid subject for the test.

I feel that also. And I do agree, some films (due to period settings) WOULDN'T pass. Many war films, if only centred on the war/battles, would very rarely have women in there at all, let alone interacting with another woman. 12 angry men (1957) obviously doesn't have women in it, nor could it. It's not what the film is tackling (in fact having a woman in that situation would ruin the point).

Not very many of my favorite movies pass, but I would argue that not every movie needs to, depending on characters and content. For instance, Blade Runner does not, because it only has three female characters and at no point do they interact with each other at all... but neither do they need to in order to forward the plot, characters or action. I'm of a mind that's it's mostly bothersome when a movie has two+ female characters and they have a conversation that centers around a man but doesn't forward the plot or expand upon the characters themselves. But sometimes the conversation needs to be about a male character in order to forward elements of character or plot or action, and in that case it's suitable.

Agreed. Great example with Blade Runner (1982).

At any rate, I think it's a fun exercise, and certainly worth keeping in mind if your film has female characters who interact with each other, but I wouldn't treat a Bechdel pass/fail as any measure of quality.

Agreed 100%. I don't think the Adventures of Robin Hood (1938) would past the test, but the film is in no-way sexists or unsupportive of women in film (Maid Marian gets ALL the best moments). And films like the African Queen (1951) "fails" but again, due to the story, the film would be hard pushed to PASS the test.

[Kieran_Frost]

It's not about whether a movie is good or bad, it's just to make a point about how male-dominated movies are. It's something for writers to take into consideration and maybe look back at their story and think, "Do all these characters need to be male??"

100% TRUE!!! That doesn't mean, if upon considering all angles, a writer MUST change one of his male cast into a female (the example of John Carpenter is PERFECT); but it's merely to help the writer to think beyond the most obvious ideas.

There's also another issue; what if there's a very long conversation between two women that isn't about men but they mention a man in the last sentence? Automatic fail, presumably.

The conversation counts, and would pass the test. Mentioning a man isn't an instant fail; merely being THE THING they talk about (being it romantic interests, sons, fathers, etc).

I think two women talking about their sons would be different than talking about their 'man.' Personally.

I also feel this way. It's more mothers talking about their children (unless the conversation is specifically "oh, it's so good to have a son" -- but it's a hypothetical situation to begin with, soooo....)

As I see it, this only exists to make people aware. It shouldn't be a metric by which you do or don't watch movies. I am not watching Sex and the City because it passes the test, and skipping Lost in Translation because it fails.

AGREED!!!!

[Siddon]

MY top ten

Citizen Kane - Fails
Exorcist - Passes
House on Haunted Hill - Passes
LA Confidential - Fails
Last of the Mohicans - Passes???
One Flew Over the Cuckoos Nest- Fails
The Thing - Fails
Captains Courageous - Fails
Boogie Nights - Passes
Clue - Passes

[dupersuper]

Not in lesbian porn.
Female plumbers, pffft.

The movie Bound comes to mind...

[the goddamn batman]

Blade Runner is interesting. Having 3 named female characters. They don't talk to each other, but doesn't having them make some amount of difference? Maybe not, I dunno...