Superman Program on "Fresh Air"

[BDiogenes]

Promoting a book by a mainstream author. It contains some dubious and/or controversial ideas like that Superman, Batman, and Spider-man were somehow Jewish because their names end in the combining form "man" and because their creators might have been Jewish, and that the owners of DC at the advent of Supes had been pornographers and were, in effect, crooks who then chiseled his naive creators. Fresh Air is archived. If anyone heard the radio series I would be interested if it followed the comic or the tv series in its nature.

[shaxper]

and because their creators might have been Jewish

"might have been"?

[Slam_Bradley]

I don't see anything particularly dubious there.

[Rob Allen]

Here's the Fresh Air page on the story:

http://www.npr.org/2012/06/18/155278...w-superman-bio

[BDiogenes]

The author was suggesting that as all six creators were Jewish they added the combining form "man" as an indication their character was Jewish, especially in the case of Messrs. Siegel and Shuster; in context that's why I said "might have been", might meaning I doubt a link can be shown between the two facts. Didn't F. Nietzsche originate the term "Superman" or can that be dismissed because the words are different in German? Adding man to heroes' names seems so natural all these years later; I don't know the first instances for certain.

[BDiogenes]

I don't understand the point about not calling characters "super before Superman." "Superman" was a common epithet several years before the character. There's a famous oft-reprinted house ad where Doc Savage is called a "superman" even though he wears suit-clothes. I found John Carter referred to as a "superman" in 1913's WARLORD OF MARS.

Obviously, I was unaware of the above; I've never read any books on comic history nor have I heard what Gothos advised. It makes the "man" claim even less likely, but that author does say Kal-El means someone from God in Hebrew. It's fair comment to call the notion of Superman being openly intended as Jewish "dubious".

[Johnny P. Sartre]

Man, did a thread on this in the Superman board and no one replied. ;_; Oh well.

Heard this whole thing on my way to work this morning. This was an interesting interview by Terry, which I thought she did a great job being an interviewer (like always) and asked Tye great in-depth questions. Overall, this gave a great overview on the hero. it's creators and byproducts.

[shaxper]

Obviously, I was unaware of the above; I've never read any books on comic history nor have I heard what Gothos advised. It makes the "man" claim even less likely, but that author does say Kal-El means someone from God in Hebrew. It's fair comment to call the notion of Superman being openly intended as Jewish "dubious".

What's been argued far more convincingly (and knowing the quality of Terry Gross's program, I have to assume this is what the guest was advocating) is that Superman and other superheroes were heavily influenced by their creators' Jewish experience.

Make no mistake, all of these characters were created with the intent of producing a highly marketable character to 1930s America, so the idea of making him Jewish was off the table. I'm pretty sure both Kane and Siegel/Shuster actually created stories where their characters celebrated Christmas.

However, Nietzche's "Superman" was a central ideal behind Hitler's Third Reich, so two Jewish American kids making a thoroughly non Aryan-looking human ideal and calling it "Superman" could easily be seen as a thumbing of the nose at the 1930's Jew's worst nightmare. Similarly, this could easily explain why so few iconic Superheroes have light features, let alone blonde hair and blue eyes. Most of them were created by Jews and, whether consciously or otherwise, I think most Jews who had endured the horror of those war years would have some difficulty creating a super powered being who physically resembled Hitler's Aryan ideal.

[BDiogenes]

Yes, shaxper, influenced by the experience of Jews and Jerry Siegel's at school being called Siegel the Seagull, hence Superman's flying, and Joe Shuster's sight problems, thus Supes' x-ray vision. Larry Tye knows the score because he read J. Siegel's memoir, suppressed by DC probably because it's unfavorable to them. I don't know who raised the man bit, him or TG, and even more so the inclusion of Bats and Spidey might have been by TG, as a joke. Clearly that's wrong because you have George Bernard Shaw's "Man and Superman" in 1903 following on Friedrich Nietzsche's "Also sprach Zarathustra" encompassing Ubermensch (Superman or Overman) in 1883-1885. Hitler appropriated any reference much later, but he was more about master race and FN about a "self-mastered individual". The two JS's created Supes well before it was published so they and the world didn't know all what the Nazis were doing. I just wanted to preview what fans were in for if they caught it. shaxper, you may wish to hear I've publicly called Fresh Air the second best program on broadcast radio nationally, but I do feel she tends to skew interviews to what interests herself. To be quite candid, I think humanity should organize itself based on common values and not ethnicities as in the Lennons' "...no countries...", i.e., no more concern over nationality. Correction: Spidey was started by SL and Steve Ditko, who apparently might not be Jewish, about which I could not care less, but he might"ve been livilng at 43rd and 8th in '67 when I was buying my first Spideys at 43rd and 7th!! Btw, your Apes thread is incredible.

Otchofriend, I posted here because the show was mostly about the history of Supes.

[Cei-U!]

Except, BD, that Superman as originally conceived by Siegel and Shuster couldn't fly and had no x-ray vision. Those powers came later. "X-ray eyesight," as it was originally called, was first mentioned in Action Comics #11 and true flight, as opposed to Hulk-style leaping, didn't become standard until imposed on the character by the Fleischer Studios during the making of the 1940s animated cartoons (although, to be fair, Superman was changing direction mid-leap and hovering in the comics long before he could "officially" fly). If Siegel claimed otherwise in his memoir, he was mistaken.

Cei-U!
I summon the fly in the ointment!

[BDiogenes]

Cei-U!, acknowledged, and this is good news and not a surprise. The G. Reeves show downplayed the more fantastic atmospherics of Supes, but I wonder how the radio serial was. What does surprise me is the claim there were 104 eps. of G. Reeves. I watched all aired in NYC circa '62-'68 and can't believe it was that many, more like 33-66, the most sff one being the two-part with the generic aliens, the only alien one. Bad news: I've reheard the interview and read some of the book excerpt and am very upset and will have to post something which will prompt dissension and displeasure with me perhaps by some, but my integrity cannot let me ignore the subject and seem to condone garbage.