Highlander Series?

[Treqqor]

But i just can't see him as a rugged, world weary immortal warrior.

I don't think he necessarily needs to be rugged and world weary. It's entirely possible they're not going in that direction with the character.

[Phil Clark]

Oh, great... Twi-Lander.

[Vibranium]

I don't think he necessarily needs to be rugged and world weary. It's entirely possible they're not going in that direction with the character.

watching the tv series, I never saw Duncan as "world weary"..he was experienced and had dealt with some shit, but he didn't let it get him down

[shades of eternity]

for the most part, I liked it.

1. it really explored what it was like to be an immortal. The kid immortal, the mentally challenged immortal, the immortal junkie, as well as concepts like how long can a relationship between two immortals run.

Also it could be genuinely funny. A personal favorite is when duncan, fritzcairn and amanda stole the stone of scones.

2. great villains: callus, xavier st cloud, horton, chronos...all of these were fantastic in their own right.

heck there were some great one shot villains as well. a personal favorite was the thuggie who was duncan's friend who was very philisophical before his betrayal.

3. a fantastic supporting cast: Darius, Methos, Amanda, Fritzcairn, Joe, this is where the series shines.

not everybody was gold, but with those five you had enough to drive a storyline well.

***********

However, my biggest beef is actually one of it's greatest strengths as well: sometimes great characters were killed in a mere episode.

The "head hack of the week" sometimes reduced the power of a villain and Fritzcairn definitely died before his time.

and sometimes the characters they pushed to the forefront...kinda sucked. There is a lot of hatred towards richie as a character and some of it as warranted.

all and all a series that, if fine tuned a bit, could have been a classic.

[Mat001]

Ok, thank you, first of all, for that.
However, theres still a core problem.
THEY ARE FUCKING ALIENS!
Why would Kurgan obey the no fighting on holy ground rule in the first film if he was an assasian from an alien planet?

As in all the films and series, Immortals are supposed to conceal their existence. Hence fights always took place where mortals couldn't see it, save for those few who did know. Kurgan's fight with Kastagir brought too much attention. Well, not the fight so much as the gun shots and the Quickening afterwards.

Why does an alien give a shit about a church?

Because they had religion on Zeist. All religions, no matter the denomination or location, were off limits. Those three men in robes during the banishment scene, were priests. Ergo, the Kurgan couldn't break that edict for the same reason. Too many witnesses and holy ground. Even as killing Kastagir finally tipped him towards insanity, he was still sane enough to not break that rule. Note that Katana did likewise.

But, as it is, you are correct. Even excluding the second film all together, there is still the question of why would any evil Immortal like the Kurgan obey that rule, which Ramirez called tradition. Considering his history of rape and murder over three thousand years. That is why the third film introduced the notion of something more serious at play with the Shrine fight. Which later became the basis for the Watcher legend that Joe Dawson mentioned about Pompei's destruction in 79 A.D. in "Little Tin God".

If they were immortals on zeist the same way why did they fight with guns, which make it difficult to decapitate people?

In the theatrical cut, Katana tells his soldier to cut off all the heads of the dead bodies. In the first film, shooting Kurgan slowed him down a little. Not much, but enough. In the later films and the series, guns have an effect on Immortals, causing a temporary death where their body shuts down as it heals. This formed the basis of the rogue Watchers in season two and Xavier St. Cloud's association with James Horton and hired mercenaries. The guns would weaken an Immortal allowing for a decapitation.

Why was Ramirez so much older than Mccloud if he was sent to earth at the same time?

They were sent to different time periods. Connor arrived in 1518 A.D. and Ramirez arrived in 896 B. C., just as all the others who were banished were spread out like that.

Why on earth when an immortal kills another immortal is their a friggen lightening storm?

That's the power of the Quickening unleashed. It wasn't seen so much in the first film because they didn't have the budget for it for every Quickening. The swirling vortex of energy that you see during the final Quickening in the first film, before seeing those energy demons, is what all the Quickenings were supposed to look like. Starting with the second film, it was depicted as lightning. In the first draft by Gregory Widen, there was no visual effect. Every time an Immortal died, we'd see the nearest Immortal react physically as if they were struck. It was by the time of Larry Ferguson and Peter Bellwood that visuals were required.

The entire alien thing is dumb, your explination answers some stuff, but it still doesn't make sense,when heres your simple answer for immortals. Magic.
Bam, Magic, everything makes sense now.

Well, they do talk about it being like magic in the first two films.

Magic can be ambiguous, it's friggen magic!

Joe Quesada, is that you?

You can tell they had to cut away to stuntmen a lot, especially when in Endgame, whereas Adrian Paul could actually do his own stuff.

Actually, Lambert did a lot of his stunts in the first two films and "The Gathering". He even had his hand sliced up during the second film doing the fight as an old man. He even said it was dangerous giving him a sword. "Endgame" did have a stunt man a lot, but that's mostly during the rooftop fight.

watching the tv series, I never saw Duncan as "world weary"..he was experienced and had dealt with some shit, but he didn't let it get him down

Actually, he was carrying a lot of baggage. Having killed so many mortals during the British/Scottish war of the 1740's, during the Napoleonic wars and seeing man's inhumanity towards each other with the Civil War and it's aftermath, is what lead to his retreating to holy ground for ten years. And why he seldomly fought in any battle until 1992. Then from "Forgive Us, Our Trespass" through "The Source", he was a changed man from where he had been earlier. There was more diversity with Duncan since a weekly series needed to go through different iterations to keep it interesting, whereas the films followed the same format.

The "head hack of the week" sometimes reduced the power of a villain and Fritzcairn definitely died before his time.

Well, the episodic nature was due to the time period in which the show was made as the serial nature for television hadn't taken over yet. Course, it wasn't always easy to get a certain actor for more than one appearance. As to Fitzcarin, he was supposed to have died in "The Hunters". But the death of Warner Stocker, who played Darius, changed their plans. They had hoped that he could make it past that episode. Fitz was spared and taken out in "Star Crossed" to further drive the enmity between Duncan and Kalas. Fortunately, he did appear in flashbacks which worked out well. He was even going to be in "Endgame" at one point, but it was cut from the script before filming.

and sometimes the characters they pushed to the forefront...kinda sucked. There is a lot of hatred towards richie as a character and some of it as warranted.

[Vibranium]

F all that...they're not aliens, it's magic

end of story


even people associated with Highlander 2 have called it dogshit

[shades of eternity]

in fact you could say it is "A Kind of Magic" :p.

[Mat001]

I know, but I was explaining it as it was at the time. That's part of the reason why "The Source" came about.

[Alex]

F all that...they're not aliens, it's magic

end of story


even people associated with Highlander 2 have called it dogshit

I'm with vid, i really appreciate Mat coming up with explinations for a lot of this stuff, but since so much of it wasn't in the movies, even if it was planned to be, it still doesn't make sense if you just watch the movies.
And i'm not even getting into how stupid The Source was...but it was amazing simply for the fact that they made a movie worse than Highlander 2.

[Mat001]

Actually, some of that is in the movie. The religion references and Katana's fear regarding Connor's return. The reincarnation is implied in the film, though never mentioned. The Kurgan wasn't referred to. The other stuff is based off of what is set in the first film.

[Brainiac 3.5]

So much to geek, so little time. The movies were confusing. Conner is pretty much the Hawkman of the Highlander universe. I liked the first one more than the others, but the series was better than most of the movies. I even watched a couple of episodes of the cartoon, just to see how they were gonna get around the whole decapitation thing. Really wish I hadn't. I really wanna see the anime. My favorite villains were Peter Horton, Kalas and Kronos.

Oh, and on the cover-up thing. It was my understanding that the Watchers cleaned up after to help keep Immortals (and themselves) a secret.

Also, something that has always bothered me about Conner. Couldn't they have rewritten his birth and death dates in the first movie when they cast Lambert who was obviously NOT 18 at the time?

[Mat001]

So much to geek, so little time. The movies were confusing. Conner is pretty much the Hawkman of the Highlander universe. I liked the first one more than the others, but the series was better than most of the movies. I even watched a couple of episodes of the cartoon, just to see how they were gonna get around the whole decapitation thing. Really wish I hadn't. I really wanna see the anime. My favorite villains were Peter Horton, Kalas and Kronos.

James Horton who was played by Peter Hudson.

Oh, and on the cover-up thing. It was my understanding that the Watchers cleaned up after to help keep Immortals (and themselves) a secret.

Not always. A Watcher crew was only used in the case of the Sanctuary and in "The Raven". Often, the bodies were found or buried by the Immortals. Joe only had a hand in burying Richie.

Also, something that has always bothered me about Conner. Couldn't they have rewritten his birth and death dates in the first movie when they cast Lambert who was obviously NOT 18 at the time?

They could have, but didn't. They weren't planning to make more films and people did look a lot more rough in the 16th century than in the 21st century.

[Brainiac 3.5]

James Horton who was played by Peter Hudson.

I thought I mixed the names up. Peter Horton is the name of a character actor, that's probably why it sounded right in my head.

Not always. A Watcher crew was only used in the case of the Sanctuary and in "The Raven". Often, the bodies were found or buried by the Immortals. Joe only had a hand in burying Richie.

It just makes sense to me that they'd cover up. But if it's not in the canon, it's not in the canon.

They could have, but didn't. They weren't planning to make more films and people did look a lot more rough in the 16th century than in the 21st century.

Granted, but the dude was almost 30.

[Inkthinker]

You mean, it's A Kind of Magic.

in fact you could say it is "A Kind of Magic" :p.

Hahaaaaaaa...

[Inkthinker]

I liked the series a good bit better than any of the films, partly because they avoided trying to explain the immortality or the reasoning behind the rules to The Game.

But mostly because at some point people in street clothes (even tight clothes) pulling 3-foot swords out of their asses just because hilarious to me. Towards the later seasons they completely gave up trying to pretend that they were doing anything logical (like Duncan's long jacket) and just said "eff it".