Loeb's Thor?

[KurtW95]

Interestingly, Ultimate Thor's costume isn't as original as we all think. In fact, based on it's appearance and Thor's Ultimate appearance in general, it seems to be based on the character Thunderstrike instead of completely original.

Thunderstrike

Thor

His hammer I Beta Ray Bill's Stormbreaker too!

Agreed on both parts.

[taylor51]

There was no relationship though. Thor was their leader and Jane was merely a follower, that's how cults/groups/clubs/picnics work.

He speaks the truth. The implication that they were dating might have been there because of the mythos, but there was never any thing on panel suggesting that was actually the case.

[Robbie_Jee]

There was no relationship though. Thor was their leader and Jane was merely a follower, that's how cults/groups/clubs/picnics work.

Jane was the only member of the group to have any significance. It was heavily implied that she was Thor's love interest, just like every version of the character. But Loeb wanted Valkyrie to be his lover instead.

[Trallis]

So I guess while he was dating valkyrie he was still sharing an apartment with Jane?

[Phelpzy]

Jane was the only member of the group to have any significance. It was heavily implied that she was Thor's love interest, just like every version of the character. But Loeb wanted Valkyrie to be his lover instead.

Then Millar fixed both Loebs mistakes, and damn I spell Loeb Leob once and people freak. I love the way Millar fixed the stupid speech pattern Loeb gave Thor and the horrible Ult Iron Man minis just two pages and both gone :)

[taylor51]

Jane was the only member of the group to have any significance. It was heavily implied that she was Thor's love interest, just like every version of the character. But Loeb wanted Valkyrie to be his lover instead.

By significance do you mean a name? Because that's about all she got.

[wyokid]

Then Millar fixed both Loebs mistakes, and damn I spell Loeb Leob once and people freak. I love the way Millar fixed the stupid speech pattern Loeb gave Thor and the horrible Ult Iron Man minis just two pages and both gone :)

Speech pattern was Bendis in Ultimate Power.

He speaks the truth. The implication that they were dating might have been there because of the mythos, but there was never any thing on panel suggesting that was actually the case.

By significance do you mean a name? Because that's about all she got.

I've been saying this FOREVER lol Thank you!

[Phelpzy]

Speech pattern was Bendis in Ultimate Power.





I've been saying this FOREVER lol Thank you!

Well Miller still fixed the horrible speak pattern

[Morentez]

And then Hickman made everything perfect again!

[wyokid]

And then Hickman made everything perfect again!

Things had to have been perfect to have been changed back :P

[Morentez]

... ... ... What?

If they were perfect why would they change? You've lost me again.

[wyokid]

... ... ... What?

If they were perfect why would they change? You've lost me again.

I'm saying that, in my opinion, Millar's was not perfect thus "perfect AGAIN" would no longer apply.

[Morentez]

Whether you like it or not: Millar was the one who created Ultimate Thor. He wrote him. He gave him his attitude, he gave him his speech, he and Hitch together gave him his appearance. Anything that goes against ANYTHING that Millar established in Ultimates 1 and 2 in the extremes that Loeb did is just bad, TERRIBLE writing.

Millar's Thor IS Ultimate Thor, Loeb's Thor is someone else entirely.

Hickman managed to salvage the classic Thor Millar wrote in Ultimates 1 and 2 whilst smoothing the absolute sh**fest that was Loeb's tenure into something mildly resembling canon.

If you don't think Millar's THor was perfect then I'm afraid you just don't like Ultimate Thor. You like 616 Thor on steroids.

[wyokid]

Whether you like it or not: Millar was the one who created Ultimate Thor. He wrote him. He gave him his attitude, he gave him his speech, he and Hitch together gave him his appearance. Anything that goes against ANYTHING that Millar established in Ultimates 1 and 2 in the extremes that Loeb did is just bad, TERRIBLE writing.

Millar's Thor IS Ultimate Thor, Loeb's Thor is someone else entirely.

Hickman managed to salvage the classic Thor Millar wrote in Ultimates 1 and 2 whilst smoothing the absolute sh**fest that was Loeb's tenure into something mildly resembling canon.

If you don't think Millar's THor was perfect then I'm afraid you just don't like Ultimate Thor. You like 616 Thor on steroids.

Still doesn't make Millar's Thor perfect.

[Plawsky]

Ultimate Thor needed to learn humility. His first appearance where he refused to join only because they were American disgusts me. If he was truly all about helping people he would have joined in a heartbeat.

That's not at all what his objection was about. He didn't join because he DID want to help people; he just didn't want to help governments and armies with ulterior motives. Read that scene in Ultimates #4 again, he never says anything about America specifically. And when it's time for the Ultimates to help people - the very next issue - he shows up, because he's interested in helping people. But he still doesn't join the team, as he mentions in issue #6, because he doesn't believe in their cause. He just wants to help people.

If you think Hippie-Thor is anti-American, you're reading it wrong. He might be anti-Bush, if you will, but that's not the same thing. He's not against the American people. And it's not just a dislike for the American government; it's big governments in general. Hence the name "Hippie-Thor."

While we're on the topic of Loeb's Thor, here's something I'm confused about. I may have missed something.

At the end of Loeb's Thor Reborn story, Thor kisses Valkyrie goodbye and cheers up and gives cap a new shield and its over.

Then I read Millar's Avengers vs. New Ultimates and he's getting into bed with a girl named Jane who he shares an apartment with. Was there a Thor story between these two that I missed?

It's a bit of sloppy writing from both writers. Loeb ignored the possibility of a Thor/Jane relationship. Even if that relationship didn't exist, it's still a terrible transition from single to a live-in roommate. On Millar's side, he doesn't acknowledge Valkyrie's absence in AvNU. Valkyrie, though, had already ended the relationship in New Ultimates, but Millar could have done a better job with that transition.

He speaks the truth. The implication that they were dating might have been there because of the mythos, but there was never any thing on panel suggesting that was actually the case.

The implication is all that's really necessary, though. It's not outright stated, so Loeb certainly didn't have to acknowledge it, but that still doesn't explain the random appearance of Valkyrie as Thor's girlfriend (who also randomly had powers). As a side note, I think it could have been great to reveal that Loki not only gave Valkyrie her powers, but also arranged for the relationship between her and his brother. It would have given at least some meaning to the relationship which had none.

Speech pattern was Bendis in Ultimate Power.

That argument will never make any sense. The 22 words that Bendis wrote for Thor in Ultimate Power do not justify a complete departure from the 30-40 appearances that Thor had had up to that point. Sure, Bendis didn't write Thor properly, but it was only three lines. JMS didn't do it right either. But Loeb was the lead writer on the Ultimates. He had the biggest responsibility of the three to make sure these characters were in line, especially considering that Thor was to be a major part of his then forthcoming Ultimates run.

If there was a reason for the change, it should have at least been explained. The sudden transition was out of left field. A few pages of character development at the beginning of Ultimates 3 could have fixed all that. Instead, Thor just bursts through the wall fighting Venom, wearing a different costume, eyes glowing, making out with Valkyrie. What were fans supposed to think? That's not Ultimate Thor.

That's why Hickman's writing was so welcomed, because he took that time. None of his characters were drastically different, but he went back to show how Thor's character would work. Rather than just have Thor say "I no longer struggle with my identity because I know I'm a god," Hickman actually showed his childhood, gave us an insight as to who god-Thor was, and why he might doubt himself.

Though, truthfully, Thor had no reason to hide his true self; he didn't doubt himself in his first appearances. Ultimates #4: "These powers are neither mutant nor machine." He knew from the get-go that he was a god. Sure, he doubted himself some later when Loki started getting involved, but not at first. If he was sure of himself at the begging of Millar's Ultimates, why didn't he "speaketh true" back then?

That's the hole in Loeb's Thor; it doesn't follow the logic of his past appearances. It's a half-assed, quick explanation, just to get it out of the way. It's no better than Millar's "Tony paid me to shut up" explanation that came later.