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  1. #16
    Senior Member AJBopp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by serd View Post
    If you think about it, tales like Hush, Long Halloween, Grant Morrisons Batman and recently Court of Owls can be seen as Whodunits.

    One of the most important parts of every Whodunit is the big reveal at the end. Over some time the story and the tension have been build up to this very moment. Who is Hurt, who is the Holiday Killer, who leads the Court?
    Although a whodunit must have a big reveal, the presence of a big reveal doesn't mean there was a whodunit. In the case of NoO, I don't think the whodunit term applies.

    One, nothing was really done to make us wonder who was behind it.

    Two, who leads the Court? Well, it was implied that the Court itself did the leading, or perhaps that an old woman in a wheelchair was the key decision-maker. The reveal of the identity wasn't a whodunit moment, but a what-is-being-done moment. "Look, I'm so nasty I am manipulating both the Court and the Batman! Ha!"

    For me, it wasn't the hidden identity that was the problem. It was that I didn't realize there was an identity to even reveal. And that the motivations of the Court, never very clearly defined, became even more muddied as the arc progressed.
    In my opinion is implied in every post. Please make an effort to remember that.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LoneNecromancer View Post
    I think the best Whodunnit I saw lately in comics was finding out the identity of Leviathan. Surprised no one's brought that up.

    Quite a few of these were new characters, so it's usually obvious to tell, which means their motivation is more important than the identity, since you can tell easily who's responsible.
    Also, this. I forgot how blindsided I was by the reveal. And it was great cause for the first 10 issues (including The Return) I had no idea, but then toward the very end of Leviathan Strikes it was like, oh shit, oh shit...and then BAM! Yes shit.

  3. #18

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    Also completely forgot the Leviathan reveal.

    It's a shame the first volume of Batman inc was broken up so close to the end because Leviathan is the kind of surprise reveal that was a surprise but actually made sense when you consider Morrison's whole run. Especially since Batman and his allies just kind of ignore Talia when she keeps making threatening motions and then while they're off on the own business she goes and pretty much becomes a crazed supervillian.

    Also I loved how Return ending with Batman snarling "Game on" to Leviathan and Inc ends with Talia smugly saying "Your move beloved".

  4. #19
    Gigantic Member ispacehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zur en arrh View Post
    I thought Hurt was satisfying.
    I thought it was more than satisfying. My favorite story resolution in years.

    I didn't think much of the original Hush, though his story got better as time went on.

    Still rather indifferent about the Owls. 10 was written well, it just didn't have a huge impact on me.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Am I wrong in thinking that Hush was the only one of these stories that was actually set up as a whodunnit, a solveable mystery (and a pretty bad one at that the writer changing his min about the identity of the killer halfway through)?

    I do know that Morrison's story was an entirely different kind of story. The only Batman arc he did that qualifies for this is the one on the island with the Club Of Heroes.
    Yeah Club of Heroes worked because it isolated Batman with a cast of new characters. (Yes I know they weren't technically new, but they were for all intents and purposes).

  6. #21
    Senior Member Patroklos's Avatar
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    I think it's worth noting that Snyder's Owls-arc hasn't fully resolved yet and that there are room for more twists and reveals. Still, I can understand those who wave gripes with the reveal as it looks now (the "evil twin"-cliché, the close mirroring of the original Hush-arc...) but I just thought it was too damn well written and got completely swept away with it.
    Last edited by Patroklos; 06-18-2012 at 12:43 AM.
    "Doesn't everyone on here hate comics? Isn't this a forum where a bunch of middle aged men sit around and bitch about how they hate comics and haven't read them in twenty years?" -Mezzaro-

  7. #22
    The Dark Knight Returns DonC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Am I wrong in thinking that Hush was the only one of these stories that was actually set up as a whodunnit, a solveable mystery (and a pretty bad one at that the writer changing his min about the identity of the killer halfway through)?
    So who was Hush supposed to be?

    As for the leader of the Owls, I don't know that I would consider this a Whodunit. (Or a fair play mystery if that's what the OP really meant.) I'll admit to not having read the entire series so far (I'm way behind in reading my comics again), but other posts here have said the deciding clue, for lack of a better term, wasn't revealed until issue #10. Meaning, there was no way to solve the mystery until you were two or three pages away from the solution being revealed.

    If you are interested in fair play mystery comics, where the reader gets all the clues the detectives do, I would recommend trying to track down back issues of Mike W. Barr's series The Maze Agency. Good stuff, mostly. Although there are a few clunkers in there.
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  8. #23
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    Broken City kind of worked...not the kid, the other murder.
    Too broke for a pull list.

  9. #24
    Moderator Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Whodunits can be satisfying. The Long Halloween remains one of the best Batman comics.

    Though one problem with whodunits in a serial format is that any story that deals with the consequences is eventually going to spoil the older story for potential new readers.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonC View Post
    So who was Hush supposed to be?
    Jason Todd, originally. Which is why all the clues point to Jason Todd and none of them point to doctor whatsisname and the Riddler.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

  11. #26
    The Dark Knight Returns DonC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carabas View Post
    Jason Todd, originally. Which is why all the clues point to Jason Todd and none of them point to doctor whatsisname and the Riddler.

    I haven't read the story since it was new, but I always thought it was Tommy Elliot. The "He's New, it Has to be Him" theory of character introduction.
    Free your soul and let it fly....

  12. #27
    Marquis de carabas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonC View Post
    I haven't read the story since it was new, but I always thought it was Tommy Elliot. The "He's New, it Has to be Him" theory of character introduction.
    Well, yes. I think it was originally going to be Elliot as the brain and Todd as the muscle (as in the actual guy in the bandages), which morphed into the Riddler as the brain and, inexplicably, a middle-aged doctor without any training as the muscle.
    'The marquis. Well, you know, to be honest, he seems a little bit dodgy to me.'
    'Mm,' she agreed. 'He's a little bit dodgy in the same way that rats are a little bit covered in fur."

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