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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    Well I'm not saying this scenario doesn't happen in Batman stories. However, it's not something that only works in Batman stories. Just like a hero taking up crime fighting in part because of the death of someone close to them isn't strictly a Batman thing. There have been times in the past when Superman has wanted to kill villains.

    I don't know if it was still canon prior to the New DC Universe, but there was a story where Supes full on kills 3 Kryptonian criminals from another universe. Though he sort of went crazy for a bit afterwards.
    Truth is, there is this overall perception that Batman is a 'dark and cynical' character while Superman is 'compassionate and optimistic'...which is why resisting the urge to kill is considered more of a 'Batman thing'.

    What's REALLY ironic about this is that in the Post COIE continuity, Superman had killed, whereas Batman had never killed. And Post COIE Batman was the Batman who was considered a dark paranoiac jerka##...

    It goes back to the point I made earlier about public perceptions of iconic figures. No one will bat an eyelid if Batman beats up some punk...but if Superman does it, everyone will be shocked. For most of the other heroes, its somewhere in between.

  2. #62
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Surtur View Post
    Well I'm not saying this scenario doesn't happen in Batman stories. However, it's not something that only works in Batman stories. Just like a hero taking up crime fighting in part because of the death of someone close to them isn't strictly a Batman thing. There have been times in the past when Superman has wanted to kill villains.

    I don't know if it was still canon prior to the New DC Universe, but there was a story where Supes full on kills 3 Kryptonian criminals from another universe. Though he sort of went crazy for a bit afterwards.
    It was canon up to "Infinite Crisis". Afterwards the details of that changed as it was stated that Clark never met Zod until "Last Son" and that he had fought someone, which had left a lasting impact which lead to "Exile".

  3. #63
    Member MrMancha's Avatar
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    The Hat greatly amused me

  4. #64
    Junior Member djss1297's Avatar
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    I finally watched it last night. I enjoyed it immensely. Especially like seeing Superman acting like that.

  5. #65
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    The movie is sort of confused as to whether they want to address lethal force and the necessity of it, or just the trend of the badass anti-heroes of the 90s. It it's the latter, then yeah I can buy the Elite has basically a commentary on the extreme 90s anti-heroes. I can maybe see a resemblance of Millar's Authority, but it's more of a parody than a fair pastiche. The idea of killing becoming cool, and why it's wrong is fine. But the Atomic Skull debate becomes irrelevant.

  6. #66
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    This movie was alright. Not as good as All-Star Superman, still better than the Superman/Batman features.

    If not for the Elite abruptly becoming psychotic after killing Atomic Skull, Superman would have appeared hopelessly ineffectual because honestly, the producers stacked the deck by including an utterly reprehensible villain in Atomic Skull, whom clearly nobody could contain. If the villain had been, like, Toyman (without the pedophilic elements) on some relatively harmless crime spree, we might have seen the inherent barbarism of executing a mentally-ill human being. Ain't shedding no tears for Atomic Skull, though.

    I've soured on ACTION COMICS #775 myself, even though I sang its praises to the heavens a year ago or so, and Superman's use of excessive force to depict the bogey-man he consciously refrains from becoming really does nothing for me anymore. I'd have prefered he inspired the people of the world (as in All-Star) rather than forced them into subjugation out of fear of an unleashed Superman. Comparing Superman to a Christ-figure is a little inaccurate, but hey, Jesus Christ never needed to grow horns to make people follow him. That was the Church's invention. I'd like to see a more inspiring Superman in future films.

    The character designs were poor, Manchester Black in particular looked ridiculous with his aquiline nose/thick lips/purple hair combo. Superman looked way too much like the cheaply-made cartoon charactature we see earlier in the film. I think they need to stop attempting to adapt the artist's work in future, because Mahnke and Quietly look awful in ersatz animated form.

    Voice acting was weak as well, with Lois' valley-girl accent grating on me quite a bit, as well as Black's unconvincing (to my ear) British accent of some description. Superman sounded a little pompous, but that fit his behaviour in the film nicely.

    Kelly's dialogue could probably have used... well, a lot of work. I usually like him but maybe writing for Ben-10 has taken the edge off. I'm not sure.

    I enjoyed Clark with his dad, and the scenes with Lois once I managed to move on past her voice. The execution of Atomic Skull was tense, and I felt the pain of that boy (did he have a name? Anyway...). Superman utterly stomping the Elite once provoked was satisfying, since I was wondering why he didn't use his ability to move at very high speeds to evade some of their clumsy attacks. Finding out that Black's maudlin origin was total BS was nice too-- he laid it on too thick.

    Since I've written more than I intended I might as well give it a score rating. 7/10 would be fair.

  7. #67

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    It was freaking great. Not going to win an Oscar but I put it up there with AllStar Supes, Apocalypse or the Red Hood. DCs cartoons are definitly getting better and better. And Im definitly looking forward to The Dark Knight Returns Pt1 now.

  8. #68
    In Brightest Day! GL0709NP's Avatar
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    Im not going to lie, I haven't picked it up yet, but I havent heard one bad things about it, my best friend is the largest superman fan ever, and he says that it is his all time favorite superman animated film. He said it was just as good if not better than the All-Star supes. He also was saying that its nice to see DC ruling the animated films. I going to get it today!

  9. #69

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    As much as I enjoyed this movie and it is probably one of my favorites that DC has put out, but the argument against lethal force in this movie was laughably weak. Poorly constructed in just about every imaginable way and his whole argument is basically him saying because I said so which is starting to fly less and less in the real world. I mean I feel iffy towards the use of argument fallacies but Supes used so many of them even I couldn't ignore them. The question of lethal force seems just as confused at the end of the movie as it does at the beginning maybe even more so.

  10. #70
    New Member SizzleACD's Avatar
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    I'm a huge Superman fan and have enjoyed the previous animated movies featuring him so I was really excited to see Superman vs The Elite but.. I have to say I was sort of disappointed. I know that Superman is supposed to come off as this big naive teenager living in a man's body but I felt like they just really poured it on in this movie. Normally I love to see him try to make someone understand the difference between what's right and what's wrong but the story line was just smothered with it. At a certain point it just felt like he was lecturing someone who no longer remembered what they were being lectured about.

    The essence of a great plot line was there but it could have been delivered better, I wasn't very interested in the villains and Black's accent just really grated on me lol

    A couple of things I did enjoy were hearing George voicing Supes again and I loved hearing Pauley Perrette voicing Lois.

    Superman/Batman Public Enemies is still my favorite DC animated movie Superman followed by Superman All-Star... I plan on re-watching Superman vs The Elite and maybe I will enjoy it better the second time around

  11. #71
    Senior Member Zagreus's Avatar
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    I liked it overall. I thought Superman and Lois were well portrayed as well as Black. Pretty good stuff. I can't say I was disappointed; it was better than the original comic, but I think it could have gone a little further.

    I was always kind of bummed that the Elite and Manchester Black weren't kept around in the DCU as an effective counterpoint to the JLA. The "heroes" who kill. A slowly building conflict that could fuel dozens of stories rather than a "done in one" kind of thing between them and Superman. This is what I was hoping for in the DCnU with JLA vs Stormwatch... alas, it was not meant to be...

  12. #72
    Elder Member Mat001's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    As much as I enjoyed this movie and it is probably one of my favorites that DC has put out, but the argument against lethal force in this movie was laughably weak. Poorly constructed in just about every imaginable way and his whole argument is basically him saying because I said so which is starting to fly less and less in the real world. I mean I feel iffy towards the use of argument fallacies but Supes used so many of them even I couldn't ignore them. The question of lethal force seems just as confused at the end of the movie as it does at the beginning maybe even more so.
    Clark's point has always been that just because you can, doesn't mean that you should. Clark believes that mankind's greatest potential lies ahead and that includes reaching a point where mindless violence isn't the answer. Nor is killing because you can do so, the only solution. Clark believed that the conflict in Bialya (sp) could be resolved without having to kill anyone at all. Manchester Black refused to accept that notion and it's why he lashed out like he did. Black's belief was that might makes right and to hell with the consequences. Clark's act at the end was to serve as a wake up call to the world of what could happen if they gave in to their emotions.

  13. #73
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    I don't think there is much I can add that hasn't been said already. I really enjoyed the ending, with Superman using his powers to such extremes without necessarily killing anyone but being very dramatic. I also noticed a bit of anime like flare in his taking down of those jets, and the shadowing of his eyes during one of the final fight scenes in which it had a very Kenshiro/Fist of the North Star type of dark element to it. When Clark left that letter for Lois, my first thoughts on what it might have said was, "I'll be home in time for Dinner." Something comedic to lighten the mode and to show he was confident he'd come back to her. However for a while there I really thought he might have died and that this was going to involve some kind of miracle return to life, ... or a Superman robot.

    I always enjoy English characters in animated films/shows, their accent very well lends itself to the personality of the characters on screen. I immeditately felt black was a charming though brash individual who was very intelligent but at the same time very sly or dark, im not 100% sure about that last part.
    Last edited by Kage Kisaragi; 06-23-2012 at 10:33 AM.
    Rogue and Bishop's daughter would be called Discharge, and she'd touch people and drain all or some of their bioelectrical energy out of them causing them to either die or fall unconscious. She could then use this energy to extend her own life, heal herself, enhance her physical abilities (speed, strength, stamina,) or discharge it as various energy beams.

  14. #74
    Elder Member dupersuper's Avatar
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    I must not read this thread until I see the movie...I must not read this thread until I see the movie...I must not read this thread until I see the movie...I must not read this thread until I see the movie...I must not read this thread until I see the movie...
    Pull List; seems to be too long to fit in my sig...

  15. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by dupersuper View Post
    I must not read this thread until I see the movie...I must not read this thread until I see the movie...I must not read this thread until I see the movie...I must not read this thread until I see the movie...I must not read this thread until I see the movie...
    Dude, you gotta watch this. It's fantastic. Get to it man

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