Could "Avengers" pass the $600 million mark?

[jesse_custer]

I don't think I can agree with this enough. Heck, most readers don't even hold the source material to the standard they hold comic book films. If every comic had to "mean something" or bring something wholly unique and original to the medium the industry would be a much different place than it is currently.

A movie doesn't "have to" mean anything, true (my favorite film is Bloodsport). However, when speaking of greatness in terms of the art of filmmaking, a movie very well needs to mean something pretty damn big to compete with heavyweights like The Wild Bunch and La Dolce Vita.

[Lord Bravery]

Why does a movie have to compete with those films to be considered great though?

I mean, is A Fish Called Wanda not a great movie? That film doesn't say anything or mean something. It's just a really, really, really funny film with great performances.

[Lord Bravery]

I can't buy into that. A great action movie doesn't necessarily need a message or sociopolitical themes, but to be considered great, it MUST transcend a lot of action films at the very least, and it must be comparable to the best action movies. Personally, I think it's inaccurate to call The Avengers a great action movie because it doesn't hold a candle to the best action movies, like Die Hard and Sword of Doom.

I also think comparing The Avengers to Spielberg is a disservice to the latter. Spielberg is a great moneymaker, but he also makes culturally important films. Jaws and E.T. make The Avengers look like the clever marketing scheme that it is. Even Indiana Jones has more cultural importance than The Avengers. Raiders of the Lost Ark introduced an original screen hero that is now, by all accounts, legendary. The Avengers didn't put Iron Man in our consciousness; he was already there. So was everyone else in the film for the most part. Raiders also served as a winking commentary on older films. What does The Avengers say about film? I don't know, but it says more about marketing, that's for sure.

Don't get me wrong, I will watch The Avengers again. It's an entertaining movie. But let's not buy into the hype so much that we lose historical and cultural perspective on filmmaking.

Avengers hasn't even left the cinema yet. You're saying it isn't culturally important. Which i think is impossible to say at this point. Give it a few years and if Avengers is still talked about as a great action film and a triumph of the superhero genre then i don't see how you could say it hasn't had an impact on culture or is timeless, like your Die Hards.

[kane]

Avengers is now at $598.3 Million. It could hit $600 Mil sometime tonight.

So, the new question is: How much will Avengers make during it's (initial) run? I am going to guess it has about 4 weeks left in theaters, so I am going to guess around $630 Million.

Maybe it will pass 1.5 Billion worldwide? It is at 1,436,200,000 at the moment.

[Lord Bravery]

It hasn't opened in Japan yet has it? That's at least 50 million there.

[jesse_custer]

Why does a movie have to compete with those films to be considered great though?

Greatness is defined by comparisons. It doesn't make much sense to call something great if it isn't comparable to other great things.

I mean, is A Fish Called Wanda not a great movie? That film doesn't say anything or mean something. It's just a really, really, really funny film with great performances.

I haven't watched A Fish Called Wanda, so no opinion here.

Avengers hasn't even left the cinema yet. You're saying it isn't culturally important. Which i think is impossible to say at this point. Give it a few years and if Avengers is still talked about as a great action film and a triumph of the superhero genre then i don't see how you could say it hasn't had an impact on culture or is timeless, like your Die Hards.

I don't think it's impossible to guess how important a film will turn out to be. Forget a few years. I'm guessing that 20 years down the road, The Avengers isn't going to stick out as a paragon of filmmaking. Now, as a paragon of marketing? That's another story.

And just for the sake of comparison, I think recent action movies like Ong-Bak, Casino Royale, Crank, 13 Assassins, and Ghost Protocol are better than The Avengers and more likely to be seen as great action movies in the decades ahead.

[rawhidekid]

It hasn't opened in Japan yet has it? That's at least 50 million there.

My cousin in Japan is mad cause he is still waiting. But he just saw Amazing Spiderman and said it was the best Spiderman movie.

[BrotherUnitNo_4]

And just for the sake of comparison, I think recent action movies like Ong-Bak, Casino Royale, Crank, 13 Assassins, and Ghost Protocol are better than The Avengers and more likely to be seen as great action movies in the decades ahead.

Well, I've only seen two of those. And I while I can't engage in a technical discussion comparing those films with the Avengers, I can say that Avengers was a more satisfying film on a second viewing for me.

[DBrewer75]

It hasn't opened in Japan yet has it? That's at least 50 million there.

wow they are still waiting?

what's the reasoning for the long wait

[Lord Bravery]

Greatness is defined by comparisons. It doesn't make much sense to call something great if it isn't comparable to other great things.

Yes but you're acting as though if a film isn't a bonafide masterpiece, it isn't great. That's nonsense.

I haven't watched A Fish Called Wanda, so no opinion here.

Ahh man you should, one of the funniest films ever. The scene with Kevin Kline's Otto is torturing Michael Palin's Ken is just... amazing. Someone actually had a heart attack and died from laughter whilst watching it.

I don't think it's impossible to guess how important a film will turn out to be. Forget a few years. I'm guessing that 20 years down the road, The Avengers isn't going to stick out as a paragon of filmmaking. Now, as a paragon of marketing? That's another story.

Time will tell.

And just for the sake of comparison, I think recent action movies like Ong-Bak, Casino Royale, Crank, 13 Assassins, and Ghost Protocol are better than The Avengers and more likely to be seen as great action movies in the decades ahead.

Casino Royale and 13 Assassins I agree are better than Avengers. I wouldn't say Ong-Bak, Crank or Ghost Protocol are, even though they are still great action films. Although with Crank, for me that just has unlimited replay value. I love the hell out of that movie.

[Simbob4000]

The Avengers isn't great, it's a passable, mostly forgettable movie, tons of those come out every year.

And you don't really need time to tell with this movie, this isn't like some little movie that builds a following over time, The Avengers is one of the biggest movies ever and besides here on a comic book message board I'm not hearing anything about it.

[GRANT!]

The level of pretension on this thread rivals the Hulk thread of '04.

[Tazirai]

The Avengers isn't great, it's a passable, mostly forgettable movie, tons of those come out every year.

And you don't really need time to tell with this movie, this isn't like some little movie that builds a following over time, The Avengers is one of the biggest movies ever and besides here on a comic book message board I'm not hearing anything about it.

People still talk about the Avengers movie. So I dont know what crowd you run with. The thing is now Everything is being compared to it. Basically the new meme is... Avengers did it better! The significance is that It is really the movie that has mainstreamed Superhero flicks. Sure we've had movies before do it and make a ton of money. But Avengers was set from the beginning to be a different beast. Avengers appealed to everyone, except the people who need a love story in every movie. Avengers basically said ok, if you do a superhero movie, you need to tighten up, no excuses for lack of costume, no storyline excuses, no effects excuses, NO EXCUSES!

If you make a good move, create good buzz, people will see it and word of mouth will carry it. There's a reason why Prometheus which is not even the same genre as Avengers gets compared to it, simply put Avengers did it better.

[Lord Bravery]

The Avengers isn't great, it's a passable, mostly forgettable movie, tons of those come out every year.

And you don't really need time to tell with this movie, this isn't like some little movie that builds a following over time, The Avengers is one of the biggest movies ever and besides here on a comic book message board I'm not hearing anything about it.

Nonsense. Passable, forgettable movies don't get critical acclaim and make 1.5 billion dollars, breaking every single box office record along the way.

And i don't know what crowd you run with, but everyone talks about Avengers. It's even an internet meme.

How do you think a film makes 1.5 billion dollars and has small drops weekend to weekend? Repeat viewings, and not just from fanboys. People, average cinema goers are watching this film 3 or 4 times at the cinema. That isn't normal.

[kmeyers]

The Avengers isn't great, it's a passable, mostly forgettable movie, tons of those come out every year.

And you don't really need time to tell with this movie, this isn't like some little movie that builds a following over time, The Avengers is one of the biggest movies ever and besides here on a comic book message board I'm not hearing anything about it.

I am constantly hearing about it from random strangers. I have a lot of comic book t-shirts and recently went on vacation with my girlfriend. I wore my Avengers t-shirts and (no exaggeration) got asked about it more often than not while interacting with people. The girl at the hotel check in counter said she liked my shirt(and Green Lantern ring) and started talking about the movie, and while we were talking, upgraded our room for free. I went to Burger King and 2 of the people working there showed me their Avengers bracelet, and one even said, "aw man, I forgot my Thor wristband!" A random guy in the elevator started up a conversation about it. The waitress at dinner...

Obviously they felt comfortable enough to talk to me about the movie because I was wearing Avengers shirts, but I've not had that many people start up conversations with me about Avengers or any other comic book characters on my shirts in the past. Not saying this is definitive proof of anything, just something I noticed that was kind of cool.