Could "Avengers" pass the $600 million mark?

[Powerboy]

Exact same situation? I'll let you watch the Hulk movie to refresh your memory since you don't remember any of it.
Black Widow didn't have a highly trained and armed team of mercenaries RIGHT along side her, ones that were so good Ross was indebted for the "coins cashed in", firing off their weapons (gas, machine guns, tranqs) constantly, quite ignorant of what they were up against.

I'd almost say it's the complete opposite situation. She was alone. And knew EXACTLY what she was up against.

Yes. I haven't seen the second Hulk movie (aka the canon one for Avengers purposes) for a while either but wasn't Blonsky already enhanced by that time? I mean, he wasn't the Abomination yet but he was injected with something akin to the Super Soldier Serum. He was already superhuman in addition to not fully comprehending how powerful the Hulk was. Natasha Romanova knew exactly how powerful the Hulk was and that she had absolutely zero chance and she was not (officially) superhuman. She was neither arrogant enough to think she could beat the Hulk or insecure enough to try when she knew she couldn't, unlike Blonsky. She took the only tactically sound option, the only option, and ran.

Also, one could argue that she is the bravest and best of the team even above Hawkeye in that regard because she has no powers and little in the way of special devices and yet holds her own.

[Phil Clark]

Yes. I haven't seen the second Hulk movie (aka the canon one for Avengers purposes) for a while either but wasn't Blonsky already enhanced by that time? I mean, he wasn't the Abomination yet but he was injected with something akin to the Super Soldier Serum. He was already superhuman in addition to not fully comprehending how powerful the Hulk was.

No. It was only AFTER the incident in the factory, and Blonsky just about going postal on General Ross that Ross told Blonsky about the Super Soldier Serum project, and they did the first round of injections. So Blonsky wasn't enhanced in any way until the encounter at the University Campus. And AFTER that he was given another round, plus Gamma radiation (IIRC) and THAT sparked the eventual transformation into the Abomination.

[Simbob4000]

The opening of The Avengers is indeed terrible, but the action gets MUCH better afterward. It certainly doesn't resemble a television show.

The Thor/Iron Man fight is shot like a tv show, it's just flat shots with little to no camera movement. The only time that fight doesn't feel like a tv show is when the "camera" is freed from reality and we see them flying around. But when it comes to real things, he seems to shot them in the most boring way possible.

Exact same situation? I'll let you watch the Hulk movie to refresh your memory since you don't remember any of it.
Black Widow didn't have a highly trained and armed team of mercenaries RIGHT along side her, ones that were so good Ross was indebted for the "coins cashed in", firing off their weapons (gas, machine guns, tranqs) constantly, quite ignorant of what they were up against.

I'd almost say it's the complete opposite situation. She was alone. And knew EXACTLY what she was up against.

Did you miss were I said he had a team with him? I think I said that at some point. You're right it wasn't exactly the same, he had a highly trained and armed team who were all take out right before his eyes. But they where both in the same situations, and they were both filmed in much the same way, which highlights the similarities.

He knows what he was up against by the end of his encounter. He watched the Hulk doing Hulk things, he had factory equipment thrown at him, he saw their stuff wasn't working, he saw three of his men get crushed, he watched the Hulk put a Hulk size hole in a brick wall. He knew when it was over that the thing he was fight wasn't normal.

So we are getting to the truth of the matter. You are an anti-Whedon-ite. Dude, if he shot it like he's still doing a TV show then that is simply because his TV shows felt more like cinematic films than TV shows. And to say almost all the action in The Avengers sucks? Seriously.

I can't even talk to you anymore.

Anti-Whedon-ite? I've watched his shows, they may sometime feel more cinematic that other tv shows, but no one is ever going to mistake them from movies, especially when it comes to the action scenes. I'm not the biggest fan of Whedon, I don't think his stuff is all that funny, and I don't think he's anywhere near as good as his hardcore fans do, but I watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer sometimes.


And yeah, the action in The Avengers sucks, the only good bit I can really think of is when the Hulk takes down the giant flying armored snake thing.

[Phil Clark]

Funny, because MOST people complained about the fights in Batman Begins because the camera moved so much you couldn't possibly follow the action. I guess there is no one way to film an action sequence. Me, I prefer to see what is going on rather then move the camera so much it obscures the action. IMO Whedon is an excellent action director.

[Lord Bravery]

He must be the only person in the entire planet who thinks the Avengers action sucks.

Let me know when another superhero film has a 1 minute long tracking shot that swoops from one hero to another where we have amazing shots like Cap deflecting Stark's repulsors off his shield to take out multiple enemies, then flying up to help Hawkeye out, who then fires an arrow which we follow to it's target, then Hulk and Thor fighting side by side on a giant mechanical dragon thing. Without a single cut. How can anyone who has any interest in superheroes dislike that moment? And even on a technical film making level it has to be admired.

The amount of imagination and thought that went into the action scenes is absurdly good. How is this deniable?

Even cool little touches like Thor summoning Mjolnir through a load of walls on the Helicarrier, with the camera focusing on him whilst we hear Hulk running towards him in the background. Moments ripped straight from the comics like Cap tucking up behind his shield in mid air to block an explosion. To the tracking shot of Iron Man dog fighting above the New York skyline. To Hulk's famous encounter with Loki.

Sorry, anyone who says the action in Avengers is poorly choreographed, planned out and executed is talking out of their arse. It's that simple.

[Prodigy X]

The Thor/Iron Man fight is shot like a tv show, it's just flat shots with little to no camera movement. The only time that fight doesn't feel like a tv show is when the "camera" is freed from reality and we see them flying around. But when it comes to real things, he seems to shot them in the most boring way possible.



Did you miss were I said he had a team with him? I think I said that at some point. You're right it wasn't exactly the same, he had a highly trained and armed team who were all take out right before his eyes. But they where both in the same situations, and they were both filmed in much the same way, which highlights the similarities.

He knows what he was up against by the end of his encounter. He watched the Hulk doing Hulk things, he had factory equipment thrown at him, he saw their stuff wasn't working, he saw three of his men get crushed, he watched the Hulk put a Hulk size hole in a brick wall. He knew when it was over that the thing he was fight wasn't normal.



Anti-Whedon-ite? I've watched his shows, they may sometime feel more cinematic that other tv shows, but no one is ever going to mistake them from movies, especially when it comes to the action scenes. I'm not the biggest fan of Whedon, I don't think his stuff is all that funny, and I don't think he's anywhere near as good as his hardcore fans do, but I watched Buffy the Vampire Slayer sometimes.


And yeah, the action in The Avengers sucks, the only good bit I can really think of is when the Hulk takes down the giant flying armored snake thing.

Wow. Just...Wow. You my friend are the 7% that didn't like the movie. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Wow!

[Simbob4000]

Funny, because MOST people complained about the fights in Batman Begins because the camera moved so much you couldn't possibly follow the action. I guess there is no one way to film an action sequence. Me, I prefer to see what is going on rather then move the camera so much it obscures the action. IMO Whedon is an excellent action director.

Only nothing that's happening in the Iron Man/ Thor fight really needs you to whole still on it, it was like boring flat angles with some shot reverse shot of simple punchs or energy shots being delivered by two guys just standing there. If you're going to have Thor shot Iron Man with some lightning in a over the shoulder shot, maybe also do a slow push in on Iron Man as he's being electrocuted into the close up; instead of just cutting to the close up that's in the same setup we saw Iron Man in before cutting to the over the shoulder shot.

The thing that makes it kind of mind-boggling is the Avengers movie is playing off Ultimates 1&2 so much, and those comics have some variation of the fights staged in far more interesting ways.

[Treqqor]

Wow. Just...Wow. You my friend are the 7% that didn't like the movie. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but Wow!

Nothing wrong with being the minority in opinion. We're all entitled to it.
As strange as most of us may find it...

[Phil Clark]

The thing that makes it kind of mind-boggling is the Avengers movie is playing off Ultimates 1&2 so much, and those comics have some variation of the fights staged in far more interesting ways.

No, what is mind boggling is that argueably the best super hero film ever is being nitpicked to death. They pretty much nailed the Avengers for their first "team" movie, a first EVER in cinema, and you can only find fault with nearly every element that most of the rest of us here at the CBR Boards find so incredible about the movie. And when one thing you didn't like is universally praised, you move on to another thing you didn't like, which will take up another 5 pages of discussion. We get it. you didn't like it. You are in the minority here. Time to move along to another topic. IMO.

[Lord Bravery]

I'd go as far to say the Avengers movie is probably the best Avengers story, in any medium, since Kurt Busiek's run. It's just the ultimate superhero film. It has flaws, but so do superhero comics (and every film, ever). Like your deus ex machinas and mcguffins.

The point is, if you actively go looking for flaws in a movie, ANY movie, you'll find them. And at the end of the day the only person who is having less fun is the person who is looking for the flaws, so you're actively ruining your enjoyment, which makes you just a little bit sad.

[Powerboy]

Funny, because MOST people complained about the fights in Batman Begins because the camera moved so much you couldn't possibly follow the action. I guess there is no one way to film an action sequence. Me, I prefer to see what is going on rather then move the camera so much it obscures the action. IMO Whedon is an excellent action director.

Yes that was the ironically named "steady-cam" thing, wasn't it? That was the trend to make movie fights look more like newsreel footidge by jerking the camera all over the place so you couldn't even see the f'n fight. Thankfully, that got dropped later. If by "boring", it just means the Avengers fights were not a sensory overload and you could actually see them and wrap your mind around what was happening, then yeah, they were boring. Otherwise, they were good fights.

[Simbob4000]

No, what is mind boggling is that argueably the best super hero film ever is being nitpicked to death. They pretty much nailed the Avengers for their first "team" movie, a first EVER in cinema, and you can only find fault with nearly every element that most of the rest of us here at the CBR Boards find so incredible about the movie. And when one thing you didn't like is universally praised, you move on to another thing you didn't like, which will take up another 5 pages of discussion. We get it. you didn't like it. You are in the minority here. Time to move along to another topic. IMO.

It's not a very good movie, and it isn't argueably the best super hero movie; it isn't better than the first Iron Man movie, or Unbreakable, Darkman, The Crow, Iron Monkey, there's five super hero movies all better than The Avengers. It's a somewhat enjoy, or at least watchable movie with a lot of little stupid things and pretty poorly executed action sequences. It's funny when the Hulk is doing his Droopy routine, that was good.

[Simbob4000]

Yes that was the ironically named "steady-cam" thing, wasn't it? That was the trend to make movie fights look more like newsreel footidge by jerking the camera all over the place so you couldn't even see the f'n fight. Thankfully, that got dropped later. If by "boring", it just means the Avengers fights were not a sensory overload and you could actually see them and wrap your mind around what was happening, then yeah, they were boring. Otherwise, they were good fights.

What the hell does a fight in a Batman movie have to do with The Avengers? I didn't say it should be like Batman, I haven't been praising the action in Batman, I didn't say they should shake the camera around, I said they should move it. Moving the camera isn't the same as shaking the camera. You can move the camera and keep it steady.




Look at this, some of the time is doesn't even feel like they're in the scene together because we don't see them together. We see a boring static shot of Thor shooting lightning, cut to Iron Man getting shocked (there's a little movement there), cut to static over the shoulder shot of Thor electrocuting Iron Man still, cut back to a static shot of Iron Man in the same setup we saw before the over the shoulder. Now the over the shoulder could have had a slow camera push-in on Iron Man into the closer shot while being electrocuted (or a pan up), that would have played up that he may be in danger and added some punch to the joke that comes next; it also wouldn't have looked like simple TV setups that were done to get it over with fast. When we see Iron Man shooting Thor we're right back in that same setup again for a third time, he shots Thor who's out of frame, then we see Thor getting hit in what looks like the same setup the camera was in when Thor was calling lightning at the start of the video, only it's not zoomed in as much. Then we go into into some CGI stuff were the "camera" is "moving". We come out of the CGI stuff into a static long shot of them standing, then the rest of the fight we see in that clip is pretty much in shot reverse shot. It goes shot reverse shot of them punching each other (with a little shaky cam), static shot from the ground looking up, closer shot reverse shot of Thor crushing Iron Man's gauntlets and Iron Man shooting him in the face (there's a little camera movement there), back to the the same wider shot reverse shot with a little shaky cam from before for the headbutting. The constant use of the same setups over and over again with little variety and almost no camera movement makes it feel like something that was done for tv. Compare that to something like the opening of the first Kill Bill movie, which has a lot more setups and a lot more camera movement, it doesn't look like it was shot in the fastest way possible, it looks like a movie.

[marshal99]

It's not a very good movie, and it isn't argueably the best super hero movie; it isn't better than the first Iron Man movie, or Unbreakable, Darkman, The Crow, Iron Monkey, there's five super hero movies all better than The Avengers. It's a somewhat enjoy, or at least watchable movie with a lot of little stupid things and pretty poorly executed action sequences. It's funny when the Hulk is doing his Droopy routine, that was good.

That's entirely your opinion though. We all have our preference and opinions , fine if you do not like the avengers movie but please , don't act like your opinion is more valid than anyone else's.

[choptop]

It's not a very good movie, and it isn't argueably the best super hero movie; it isn't better than the first Iron Man movie, or Unbreakable, Darkman, The Crow, Iron Monkey, there's five super hero movies all better than The Avengers. It's a somewhat enjoy, or at least watchable movie with a lot of little stupid things and pretty poorly executed action sequences. It's funny when the Hulk is doing his Droopy routine, that was good.

im with you man to me its far from the best super hero film ever.