Knightfall V3: KnightsEnd New Edition

[merrick97]

While I am not holding my breath that "The Search" will be included, the one glimmer of hope I DO have is the 4 issues in the solicit that will not be included, as they are part of the "Zero Hour" storyline, will free up room for SOTB and LOTDK arcs. However, it seems more likely they'll throw in the "Troika" storyline.

DO we know for a FACT that they won't be included? They are listed in the solicit, but based on what everyone tells me they are not in anyway connected to KnightsEnd and their inclusion would create more confusion.

Right now I am just getting a hold of the individual issues of The Search and I may just have them binded. Those issues have been easy to track down. The prelude issues, not so much.

Troika would be nice.

[fatalwish]

They have absolutely NOTHING to do with the Knightfall saga. However, if they ARE included, I will get in my car, drive to DC's offices in Manhattan, find the supervisor of the Knightfall NE project, and punch them RIGHT in the face.

[Jim Thompson]

Nice try, but you can't defy the laws of chemistry. The chemicals in newsprint paper fade out at a rate FAR sooner than that of glossy and/or semi-gloss. The oils from your hands also do more damage to newsprint paper as well. Before you say "I wash my hands" every hand produces oils which is why we leave fingerprints. I suppose I could wear gloves.

Btw, if you think I am being unreasonable with what I expected from Knightfall, take a look at these two threads and you will find a lot of what I was expecting is in line with what other people are expecting.

http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ght=knightfall

http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ght=knightfall

Btw, I am really not trying to be hostile with you, but I am just trying to understand how you can be satisfied with this set and not feel that it could have and should have been so much more.

I really don't think you're being hostile; I just think you have a hard time really seeing that not everyone sees the world as you do, or that they could take enjoyment from things you don't. The books weren't put out the way you would have done it, therefore they are 'crap' and a 'failure' by your way of looking at things, and anyone who gets enjoyment from them must like 'crap'. The idea that someone could enjoy the look, texture, feel and content of these books, for example, seems wholly out of your ability to accept. There's no right or wrong in it, but you seem to be going out of your way to define the discussion in those sorts of terms. You've tried to lecture about the chemistry of things (a subject with which I have some passing familiarity) to demonstrate why others should be unhappy with the product. The tone of that argument would seen to imply the product will fall apart and turn to dust in a matter of months no matter how one handles it. You've even pre-supposed how I might interpret your views by hastening to ensure you show you don't share them alone, a strength in numbers sort of argument.

Is it really that galling that someone enjoys the product when you don't?

[merrick97]

I really don't think you're being hostile; I just think you have a hard time really seeing that not everyone sees the world as you do, or that they could take enjoyment from things you don't. The books weren't put out the way you would have done it, therefore they are 'crap' and a 'failure' by your way of looking at things, and anyone who gets enjoyment from them must like 'crap'. The idea that someone could enjoy the look, texture, feel and content of these books, for example, seems wholly out of your ability to accept. There's no right or wrong in it, but you seem to be going out of your way to define the discussion in those sorts of terms. You've tried to lecture about the chemistry of things (a subject with which I have some passing familiarity) to demonstrate why others should be unhappy with the product. The tone of that argument would seen to imply the product will fall apart and turn to dust in a matter of months no matter how one handles it. You've even pre-supposed how I might interpret your views by hastening to ensure you show you don't share them alone, a strength in numbers sort of argument.

Is it really that galling that someone enjoys the product when you don't?

You are actually correct in how I feel. Basically, I feel that you are giving DC a pass because they are giving us more than what they gave for the previous set. IMO its that kind of attitude that prevents DC from truly giving us the set that Knightfall deserves in terms of content. DC has underperformed in so many ways and I feel that DC fans just say "ok good enough. Its still cheap and it has more content than before" IMO you SHOULD be disappointed with what this set gives you, because it should have been so much more. I am not at all talking about paper quality, you like the newsprint paper, I absolutely hate it. SO be it. I am talking about content.

I am really not trying to sound condescending or elitist. I'm really not, but I am giving you my honest opinion, because in order to get DC to improve people have to stand up and tell them that their releases are subpar and it just seems that too many people give DC a pass because its cheap and it has more what came before.

I am honestly trying to say that as politely as possible and I will just close it by saying that I respect your opinion eventhough I strongly disagree with it.

If you look at those two threads I showed you MANY people had the same expectations I did. It just seems like I am the only one who is willing to do something about it and complaining CAN work if enough people do it.

Case in point:

On the Playstation 3 a video game company called Ubisoft released a game called the Splinter Cell Trilogy, a game that I was VERY excited to receive, BUT when the game was released without a feature that made it impossible for me to play. Many people were upset, but most had the attitude of "Ubisoft doesn't care what people think they don't make enough money to make it worth it" and I started complaining, I posted on every gaming forum I could find and told people to call Ubisoft technical support and POLITELY raise hell about the issue. I also got websites, like joystiq, kotaku, bluesnews and shacknews to mention the missing feature and guess what happened?

Ubisoft tech support called me PERSONALLY and told me that they were going to patch the issue ahnd it happened about a month later. They told me that it wasn't just a simple case of fixing it, it had to go through a process.

If you think I am making it up go to this link right here and read the comments, you will see my name mentioned a few times saying I deserve props for bringing that issue to light.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/11/23/ub...ell-hd-trilog/

The bottom line is: If I am unhappy about something I will raise hell about it and hope that people will join. I am not currently planning on doing something for Knightsfall, but I am thinking about it.

[merrick97]

In an effort to be more positive (and possibly seen as delusional :-)) I will just say this:

MAYBE, just MAYBE DC can include the Search.

WHen you consider that KnightsEnd Vol 3 is solicited at 652 pages.

The current KnightsEnd TPB is 298 pages and Prodigal is 288 pages, which gives us a total of 586 pages, which gives us a total of 66 pages to play with, which is approximately 3 issues. The Search is 8 total issues which includes the Justice League Task Force issues or 6 issues without the JLTF issues, so there IS room for them to include The Search issues issues to have a page total of about 720.

Can it be done? Sure.

Will it be done? Crystal ball doesn't look favorable.

[Jim Thompson]

You are actually correct in how I feel. Basically, I feel that you are giving DC a pass because they are giving us more than what they gave for the previous set. IMO its that kind of attitude that prevents DC from truly giving us the set that Knightfall deserves in terms of content. DC has underperformed in so many ways and I feel that DC fans just say "ok good enough. Its still cheap and it has more content than before" IMO you SHOULD be disappointed with what this set gives you, because it should have been so much more. I am not at all talking about paper quality, you like the newsprint paper, I absolutely hate it. SO be it. I am talking about content.

I am really not trying to sound condescending or elitist. I'm really not, but I am giving you my honest opinion, because in order to get DC to improve people have to stand up and tell them that their releases are subpar and it just seems that too many people give DC a pass because its cheap and it has more what came before.

I am honestly trying to say that as politely as possible and I will just close it by saying that I respect your opinion eventhough I strongly disagree with it.

If you look at those two threads I showed you MANY people had the same expectations I did. It just seems like I am the only one who is willing to do something about it and complaining CAN work if enough people do it.

Case in point:

On the Playstation 3 a video game company called Ubisoft released a game called the Splinter Cell Trilogy, a game that I was VERY excited to receive, BUT when the game was released without a feature that made it impossible for me to play. Many people were upset, but most had the attitude of "Ubisoft doesn't care what people think they don't make enough money to make it worth it" and I started complaining, I posted on every gaming forum I could find and told people to call Ubisoft technical support and POLITELY raise hell about the issue. I also got websites, like joystiq, kotaku, bluesnews and shacknews to mention the missing feature and guess what happened?

Ubisoft tech support called me PERSONALLY and told me that they were going to patch the issue ahnd it happened about a month later. They told me that it wasn't just a simple case of fixing it, it had to go through a process.

If you think I am making it up go to this link right here and read the comments, you will see my name mentioned a few times saying I deserve props for bringing that issue to light.

http://www.joystiq.com/2011/11/23/ub...ell-hd-trilog/

The bottom line is: If I am unhappy about something I will raise hell about it and hope that people will join. I am not currently planning on doing something for Knightsfall, but I am thinking about it.

No worries. I think I understand where you're coming from and why this release didn't work for you; I just think when you're talking through it you're treating your personal expectations as though the were universal constants.

[merrick97]

No worries. I think I understand where you're coming from and why this release didn't work for you; I just think when you're talking through it you're treating your personal expectations as though the were universal constants.

Respectfully, I challenge you to find anyone who thinks this set is BETTER because it doesn't contain The Search OR that it wouldn't be better (or more complete) to have the Search.

[merrick97]

No worries. I think I understand where you're coming from and why this release didn't work for you; I just think when you're talking through it you're treating your personal expectations as though the were universal constants.

Respectfully, I challenge you to find anyone who thinks this set is BETTER because it doesn't contain The Search OR that it wouldn't be better (or more complete) to have the Search.

[Jim Thompson]

Respectfully, I challenge you to find anyone who thinks this set is BETTER because it doesn't contain The Search OR that it wouldn't be better (or more complete) to have the Search.

We don't even have the complete set out yet. Hard to make any sort of rational judgement before we've seen the full product.

Anyway, I can only speak for myself, and I can tell you I wouldn't be disappointed if The Search wasn't included in this collection. I'd have rather had Sword of Azrael collected up, and perhaps Troika from the end of the tale. However, even without those I find myself enjoying this collection very much so far.

[merrick97]

We don't even have the complete set out yet. Hard to make any sort of rational judgement before we've seen the full product.

Anyway, I can only speak for myself, and I can tell you I wouldn't be disappointed if The Search wasn't included in this collection. I'd have rather had Sword of Azrael collected up, and perhaps Troika from the end of the tale. However, even without those I find myself enjoying this collection very much so far.

Fair enough. Maybe, just maybe DC will surprise us with what they include in Vol. 3.

I think we understand eachother now. :-)

[dancj]

Respectfully, I challenge you to find anyone who thinks this set is BETTER because it doesn't contain The Search OR that it wouldn't be better (or more complete) to have the Search.

It's less complete without The Search, but the standard of the stories is raised by its absence.

[Dawson4]

With all this talk of the Search missing I'm unsure of where it goes in this saga. I'm reading Knightfall for the first time and just bought the first book. I read about 25 issues prior in order to understand it (Sword of Azrael, Venom, 484-490 etc) so I haven't started the actual book yet. I'm considering getting the second one now, is there anything I should read in between Knightfall Vol. 1 & 2? Where should the Search be read, is it in the middle of Vol. 2 or near the end?

[Senor Javi]

With all this talk of the Search missing I'm unsure of where it goes in this saga. I'm reading Knightfall for the first time and just bought the first book. I read about 25 issues prior in order to understand it (Sword of Azrael, Venom, 484-490 etc) so I haven't started the actual book yet. I'm considering getting the second one now, is there anything I should read in between Knightfall Vol. 1 & 2? Where should the Search be read, is it in the middle of Vol. 2 or near the end?

Wikipedia is really helpful here: < http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knightf..._release_dates >. There is nothing that you have to read between Knightfall and Knightsquest. The Search comes directly after The Crusade, but DC put the last issue of The Search at the end of the new Knightsquest trade paperback (which only contains The Crusade otherwise). If you are going to buy the individual issues for The Search, read the whole Knightsquest trade up until the last issue and then read the issues for The Search. After Robin #7, you can go directly into the new KnightsEnd trade that comes out later this year (assuming the solicit doesn't change).

[Dawson4]

Thanks Senor Javi, its been hard trying to find proper info without seeing spoilers. I use Wikipedia a lot too, that probably should've been the first place to look. Your help is appreciated.

[merrick97]

I noticed something strange on amazon.

There are two listings for the KnightsEnd. Both have different prices and ISBNs:

http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Knightf...eywords=batman

Paperback: 652 pages
Publisher: DC Comics (September 11, 2012)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1401237215
ISBN-13: 978-1401237219

http://www.amazon.com/Batman-Knightf...eywords=batman

Paperback: 652 pages
Publisher: Titan (September 28, 2012)
Language: English
ISBN-10: 1781164614
ISBN-13: 978-1781164617

That makes no sense at all and the prices are different.

Any ideas what this might be. I guess I have this weird hope that the more expensive one has better paper quality and/or The Search. very unlikely.