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  1. #31
    Marked for Redemption David Walton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    And, occasionally, the reader.
    LOL! I really don't have the same problem with the glossy format. But I'm just young and trendy like that.
    "I came to the conclusion that the optimist thought everything good except the pessimist, and the pessimist thought everything bad, except himself." -- G.K. Chesterton

  2. #32
    Senior Member merrick97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    I am very pleased they didn't go with the glossy paper.
    Apparently you like having paper that fades out in a relatively short time. Thats ok if you don't mind rebuying it in a few years. That is assuming of course that it will be in print then.

    Funny that you mention getting "blinded" because I don't that problem at all. People tell me I exaggerate.

    IN all honesty, the best paper they could have used would have been the semi-gloss matte paper that Marvel uses for their hardcovers and omnibus of material from before the mid 90s.

    There is no reason DC can't do the same. They insist on having no consistency with any of their releases. DC has taught me a valuable lesson. Don't buy anything from them until other people do and can report on the quality.

    Marvel never has this problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    When one goes in looking for fault, one will surely find it, I suppose.
    Except I didn't HAVE to look, DC made it perfectly obvious and waved it right in front of my face. Its called having realistic expectations. Including The Search was NOT an unreasonable expectation.

    Im sorry, but I can't sit there and excuse DC's incompetence, laziness or whatever the hell you want to call it just because they gave me ONE thing out of 3 things that people were asking for and that doesn't even include better paper, which I asked for, but people such as yourself did not and that's fine. The 3 things people were asking for were: A proper prelude to Knightfall, The Crusade (which they did include) and The Search. They gave us 1 out of 3. You can throw in Prodigal if you want which will make it 2 out of 4, but 50% is still crap, I'm sorry.

    Out of the 3 books, only 1 of those (Knightsquest) is truly all new material. Vol. 1 is basically a merging of the previously released Broken Bat and Who Rules the Night. Knightsquest is all new. Good move there. KnightsEnd is basically a merging of the previously released KnightsEnd and Prodigal (which has been long OOP).
    Last edited by merrick97; 06-12-2012 at 06:52 AM.
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  3. #33
    Soldier, Teacher Rob Thompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrick97 View Post
    Apparently you like having paper that fades out in a relatively short time. Thats ok if you don't mind rebuying it in a few years. That is assuming of course that it will be in print then.
    Maybe I just take care of the books.
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  4. #34
    Senior Member merrick97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Thompson View Post
    Maybe I just take care of the books.
    Nice try, but you can't defy the laws of chemistry. The chemicals in newsprint paper fade out at a rate FAR sooner than that of glossy and/or semi-gloss. The oils from your hands also do more damage to newsprint paper as well. Before you say "I wash my hands" every hand produces oils which is why we leave fingerprints. I suppose I could wear gloves.

    Btw, if you think I am being unreasonable with what I expected from Knightfall, take a look at these two threads and you will find a lot of what I was expecting is in line with what other people are expecting.

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ght=knightfall

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ght=knightfall

    Btw, I am really not trying to be hostile with you, but I am just trying to understand how you can be satisfied with this set and not feel that it could have and should have been so much more.
    My review of Absolute Dark Victory

    If I were a MOD I would ban anyone who uses the stupid word "omniboo."

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by merrick97 View Post
    Nice try, but you can't defy the laws of chemistry. The chemicals in newsprint paper fade out at a rate FAR sooner than that of glossy and/or semi-gloss. The oils from your hands also do more damage to newsprint paper as well. Before you say "I wash my hands" every hand produces oils which is why we leave fingerprints. I suppose I could wear gloves.

    Btw, if you think I am being unreasonable with what I expected from Knightfall, take a look at these two threads and you will find a lot of what I was expecting is in line with what other people are expecting.

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ght=knightfall

    http://forums.comicbookresources.com...ght=knightfall

    Btw, I am really not trying to be hostile with you, but I am just trying to understand how you can be satisfied with this set and not feel that it could have and should have been so much more.
    When I look at that first link that you posted my heart sinks for what this Knightfall collection could have been. There's really no reason for some of the decisions that DC made here like using crappy paper or excluding The Search. I think the vast majority of us would prefer to pay more money and/or buy more volumes and have DC reprint the complete saga than have them do it this way. It would seem especially important to do this collection right at this time because of all of the people that will surely want to pick Knightfall up before or after seeing The Dark Knight Rises. While the paper issue won't be fixed at this point, I suppose there is an incredibly miniscule chance that DC can right the ship in terms of collecting the rest of the material. DC could make the third volume entail The Search, Knightsend, and the Knightsend aftermath issues, publish a fourth volume with Prodigal, Troika, Robin #0, and Nightwing: Alfred's Return, and then come out with a volume 0 with Sword of Azrael and the Knightfall prelude issues. I'm sure a better Batman aficionado could say where Vengeance of Bane II should fit in. It would be nice if DC could include this extra material, but at bare minimum they should give us The Search even if it means losing Prodigal for the next collection. Remember guys, we're the customers and DC is supposed to be earning our trust and making us want to buy what they are selling. I'm seeing a lot of disappointed fans here which isn't something that DC should want when releasing one of the most significant (and long) story arcs from their most important character.

  6. #36
    Senior Member merrick97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Senor Javi View Post
    When I look at that first link that you posted my heart sinks for what this Knightfall collection could have been. There's really no reason for some of the decisions that DC made here like using crappy paper or excluding The Search. I think the vast majority of us would prefer to pay more money and/or buy more volumes and have DC reprint the complete saga than have them do it this way. It would seem especially important to do this collection right at this time because of all of the people that will surely want to pick Knightfall up before or after seeing The Dark Knight Rises. While the paper issue won't be fixed at this point, I suppose there is an incredibly miniscule chance that DC can right the ship in terms of collecting the rest of the material. DC could make the third volume entail The Search, Knightsend, and the Knightsend aftermath issues, publish a fourth volume with Prodigal, Troika, Robin #0, and Nightwing: Alfred's Return, and then come out with a volume 0 with Sword of Azrael and the Knightfall prelude issues. I'm sure a better Batman aficionado could say where Vengeance of Bane II should fit in. It would be nice if DC could include this extra material, but at bare minimum they should give us The Search even if it means losing Prodigal for the next collection. Remember guys, we're the customers and DC is supposed to be earning our trust and making us want to buy what they are selling. I'm seeing a lot of disappointed fans here which isn't something that DC should want when releasing one of the most significant (and long) story arcs from their most important character.
    Apparently everyone settles for "good enough" around here.

    The new No Mans Land editions are PROOF that DC is capable of doing a proper re-release.

    I am half expecting Vol. 3 of No Mans Land to use newsprint paper.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrick97 View Post
    Apparently you like having paper that fades out in a relatively short time.
    You must take really bad care of your comics if they fade quickly.

    I have comics that are 30-40 years old and they haven't faded at all, or only just a very tiny bit.

    If your comics are falling apart in a relatively short period of time, its your own fault for not taking better care of them. Sunlight and especially humidity are very bad for paper, so the best place to store them is in a cool, dark area. A lot of people make the mistake of storing them in garages or attics, and that is not really a good idea since those areas are typically not climate controlled. Proper care and storage will go a long way towards maintaining your comics in pristine condition for decades.

  8. #38
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    Can we get a sticky for "merrick97 hates collections printed on newspaper print" and move every post of his that references to it? I bet there will be four or five pages alone of that. We get it, you hate it. Some of us like it or at the very least, do not mind it. Some of us don't find it to be subpar quality and actually prefer the look and feel of it. Enough griping about it already, it doesn't get you anywhere.
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  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by hanotsri View Post
    Can we get a sticky for "merrick97 hates collections printed on newspaper print" and move every post of his that references to it? I bet there will be four or five pages alone of that. We get it, you hate it. Some of us like it or at the very least, do not mind it. Some of us don't find it to be subpar quality and actually prefer the look and feel of it. Enough griping about it already, it doesn't get you anywhere.
    To be fair, quality of paper should be a big deal. We're not buying digital here. I know one of my pet peeves is excusing mediocrity when we should have excellence. I'm sure if we put all of the posts defending newsprint paper or however you want to describe it into one thread it would be even longer. If we were talking about some self-published independent comic here I wouldn't expect top notch quality, but we are talking about one of the Big Two comic companies, a subsidiary of Warner Bros.(!), with one of the biggest comic reprints of the year. Accepting subpar quality will only get us subpar quality in the future. Speaking up might actually get us change. I'm waiting for the explanation of why Venom was printed on higher quality paper than Knightfall. Venom is far less important of a story than Knightfall, was printed earlier(!), and is still a $15 book(!!). It boggles the mind. No excuse here on the part of DC. Considering what is happening with Knightfall and the fact that the new version of Prey also has less-than-great quality paper, I'm seeing a disconcerting trend here from DC. It's right to speak up about it.

    Also, I get it, you and some other people like the paper they used. Personally, I don't understand the appeal. Maybe it's a nostalgia thing that I don't get because I'm pretty new to comics. To me it's like a few years ago when I had some family members say that they couldn't tell the difference between standard definition and high definition including some that inexplicably claimed that standard definition somehow looks better than high definition. To me the paper quality in No Man's Land (or Venom for that matter) is objectively better than the paper quality in Knightfall (or Prey) in the same way that high definition is objectively better than standard definition (despite what crazy family members claim). Again, perhaps I'm missing some intangible charm, but I'd ditch Knightfall paper quality for No Man's Land paper quality as quickly as I'd ditch Laserdisc for Blu-ray.
    Last edited by Senor Javi; 06-12-2012 at 07:43 PM.

  10. #40
    Junior Member fatalwish's Avatar
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    I feel paper quality is a subjective issue, although I am in NO WAY trying to brush it off. The quality of the paper is a VALID point and an extreme oversight on DC's part in what SHOULD be the "ULTIMATE" editions of this saga. However, I think the debate on paper quality is overshadowing the TRUE crime in this situation, which is that several MAJOR arcs and issues in this story are NOT collected. Just my $0.02.
    "We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, TWIRLING towards freedom!"
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  11. #41
    Senior Member merrick97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatalwish View Post
    I feel paper quality is a subjective issue, although I am in NO WAY trying to brush it off. The quality of the paper is a VALID point and an extreme oversight on DC's part in what SHOULD be the "ULTIMATE" editions of this saga. However, I think the debate on paper quality is overshadowing the TRUE crime in this situation, which is that several MAJOR arcs and issues in this story are NOT collected. Just my $0.02.
    My main beef right now IS the lack of The Search. Yet everyone feels the need to focus on my paper comments when I have accepted the subpar paper quality, because I know what is what we are going to get.

    My main issue with the lack of content to what should have been a no brainer to include, but for whatever reason DC just cant get it right.

    Its still possible we could be surprised when the set comes out in September, but the solicit from DC's website pretty much says no Search.

    In short, we are in COMPLETE agreement. The BIGGEST crime is the lack of issues that would have made this the definitive set. IMO what DC didn't do makes this set a FAIL. Getting KNightsquest was a big deal, but one good decision doesn't excuse several bad decisions.

    I use No Mans Land as proof that DC is capable of releasing a definitive set of something.

    That is assuming that they don't screw up volumes 3 and 4.
    Last edited by merrick97; 06-13-2012 at 02:07 AM.
    My review of Absolute Dark Victory

    If I were a MOD I would ban anyone who uses the stupid word "omniboo."

  12. #42
    Senior Member merrick97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hanotsri View Post
    Can we get a sticky for "merrick97 hates collections printed on newspaper print" and move every post of his that references to it? I bet there will be four or five pages alone of that. We get it, you hate it. Some of us like it or at the very least, do not mind it. Some of us don't find it to be subpar quality and actually prefer the look and feel of it. Enough griping about it already, it doesn't get you anywhere.
    Yet, you're posts like this are the ones that keep it going. You can change the subject and start talking about your feelings on the actual set and what it includes, but NO you choose to attack me instead.
    My review of Absolute Dark Victory

    If I were a MOD I would ban anyone who uses the stupid word "omniboo."

  13. #43
    Junior Member fatalwish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrick97 View Post
    If you read my posts you will see that my main beef IS the fact that DC (apparently) left out the Search.
    I have read your past posts, and I totally agree. What I meant was not directed AT YOU specifically, but the thread as a whole. I, myself, like the newsprint paper, but I feel your pain. I wish a Masterworks-style HC for you in the future.
    "We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, TWIRLING towards freedom!"
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  14. #44
    Senior Member merrick97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatalwish View Post
    I have read your past posts, and I totally agree. What I meant was not directed AT YOU specifically, but the thread as a whole. I, myself, like the newsprint paper, but I feel your pain. I wish a Masterworks-style HC for you in the future.
    I agree. Guys like hanotsri hate my paper comments, yet he continues to fuel the fire by commenting himself. My view has always been that when a thread is created to encompass a somewhat broad issue and you don't like what is being discussed then it falls on YOU to post something that will promote discussion away from what you don't like. He could have said "I wish they would have included the Search or something along those lines"

    For what its worth, if DC includes The Search my feelings toward this set will go from "underwhelming" to "good, but could have been better for not including the prelude issues"

    Give me Masterworks quality, but DON'T give me masterworks price and only 9 issues per volume!
    Last edited by merrick97; 06-13-2012 at 02:35 AM.
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    If I were a MOD I would ban anyone who uses the stupid word "omniboo."

  15. #45
    Junior Member fatalwish's Avatar
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    While I am not holding my breath that "The Search" will be included, the one glimmer of hope I DO have is the 4 issues in the solicit that will not be included, as they are part of the "Zero Hour" storyline, will free up room for SOTB and LOTDK arcs. However, it seems more likely they'll throw in the "Troika" storyline.
    "We must move forward, not backward, upward, not forward, and always twirling, twirling, TWIRLING towards freedom!"
    -Clin-Ton (Kodos)

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